The US is not a legitimate nation. It was founded on slavery and settler colonialism. If you’ve read Fanon you know that the most oppressed and dehumanized people, those with the least to lose are the most willing to carry out the work of revolution. This is why the Black Panthers focused on the lumpen proletariat. Indigenous people are closer to socialism now than any communist party is. They’ve got millions of people who understand that capitalism has taken their land and are the most likely to fight for it back. They also already have states recognized internationally with a communal culture that inspired Marx. Indigenous comrades understand the conditions of this country the most along with how to live in harmony with the people and land as they’ve done millennia. The reason comrades disparage USians in general is because most labor aristocrats and petty bourgeoise here are complacent and understand the the gains handed down to us by the imperialist bourgeoisie are selfishly not worth giving up for the risks that revolutionary struggle brings. As conditions inevitably worsen (whether you like it as an accelerationist or not) people will have to admit that capitalism and the United States will not last, but for now we need education and organization to avoid the alternative people seeing being fascism. As for the post revolution future there will likely be some sort of black and indigenous socialist confederacy and settlers like us will have representatives. But we have to keep in mind they don’t owe us anything. The might of our ancestors and current leaders does not make right. We must earn it.
Sorry for the rambliness. I hope that clears some things up. I implore you to listen to the Decolonized Buffalo podcast, the Red Nation podcast, and the Marx Madness podcast. If you don’t like podcasts at least read the Red Deal book.
i dont disagree with most of what you said it just has nothing to do with what i said kinda feels like you are just talking past me. tho u seem to be under some kind of illusion that most or even all white people the us are labor aristocracy or petite bourgeoisie which i do disagree with because it is just wrong.
I’m sorry if I sound like that to you. I think comrades see obviously bad labor aristocrats and generalize it to the entire white working class. However we are all being proletarianized and gen z for example are coming around toward class consciousness. I think my previous comment addresses your balkanization fear. Correct me if there is still misunderstanding.
“I think comrades see obviously bad labor aristocrats and generalize it to the entire white working class.” yeah they do and it is wrong not just factually but morally and plenty of yall dont seem to care. also i dont fear the amerikan nation being balkanized (tho doing so when it can be avoided would be wrong) im not particularly invested in it being american not amerikan my self, i fear this bloodthirst and antagonization of the amerikan working people will prevent socialist movements in the US from achieving socialism as i have said many times its probably difficult to overthrow capitalism while going out of your way to make enemies out of 60% of the working people at least.
I think your concerns are reasonable, and we need to avoid alienating potential comrades, but I also think it’s a somewhat valid view in that a lot of Amerikkkans do just suck or are too far gone. I know vague generalizations are a logical fallacy and some people go a little too far, but I see where they’re coming from.
The US is not a legitimate nation. It was founded on slavery and settler colonialism. If you’ve read Fanon you know that the most oppressed and dehumanized people, those with the least to lose are the most willing to carry out the work of revolution. This is why the Black Panthers focused on the lumpen proletariat. Indigenous people are closer to socialism now than any communist party is. They’ve got millions of people who understand that capitalism has taken their land and are the most likely to fight for it back. They also already have states recognized internationally with a communal culture that inspired Marx. Indigenous comrades understand the conditions of this country the most along with how to live in harmony with the people and land as they’ve done millennia. The reason comrades disparage USians in general is because most labor aristocrats and petty bourgeoise here are complacent and understand the the gains handed down to us by the imperialist bourgeoisie are selfishly not worth giving up for the risks that revolutionary struggle brings. As conditions inevitably worsen (whether you like it as an accelerationist or not) people will have to admit that capitalism and the United States will not last, but for now we need education and organization to avoid the alternative people seeing being fascism. As for the post revolution future there will likely be some sort of black and indigenous socialist confederacy and settlers like us will have representatives. But we have to keep in mind they don’t owe us anything. The might of our ancestors and current leaders does not make right. We must earn it.
Sorry for the rambliness. I hope that clears some things up. I implore you to listen to the Decolonized Buffalo podcast, the Red Nation podcast, and the Marx Madness podcast. If you don’t like podcasts at least read the Red Deal book.
i dont disagree with most of what you said it just has nothing to do with what i said kinda feels like you are just talking past me. tho u seem to be under some kind of illusion that most or even all white people the us are labor aristocracy or petite bourgeoisie which i do disagree with because it is just wrong.
I’m sorry if I sound like that to you. I think comrades see obviously bad labor aristocrats and generalize it to the entire white working class. However we are all being proletarianized and gen z for example are coming around toward class consciousness. I think my previous comment addresses your balkanization fear. Correct me if there is still misunderstanding.
“I think comrades see obviously bad labor aristocrats and generalize it to the entire white working class.” yeah they do and it is wrong not just factually but morally and plenty of yall dont seem to care. also i dont fear the amerikan nation being balkanized (tho doing so when it can be avoided would be wrong) im not particularly invested in it being american not amerikan my self, i fear this bloodthirst and antagonization of the amerikan working people will prevent socialist movements in the US from achieving socialism as i have said many times its probably difficult to overthrow capitalism while going out of your way to make enemies out of 60% of the working people at least.
I think your concerns are reasonable, and we need to avoid alienating potential comrades, but I also think it’s a somewhat valid view in that a lot of Amerikkkans do just suck or are too far gone. I know vague generalizations are a logical fallacy and some people go a little too far, but I see where they’re coming from.