It’s all I can do short of flying there and picking up a rifle. I’m in and have been in a couple of orgs in real life that have given messages of support their way. What have you done for them?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if they wouldn’t participate in a proletarian state in the event of one being formed in Mexico, proletarians would end up having to crush them and dispose of their unprincipled practices, right?
I’m not the one fantasizing about crushing indigenous peoples if they don’t comply
I’m not fantasizing about it, I was asking if it might have to happen. This is not the same as saying that it is should happen, this is wondering if conflict between militant non-Marxists and militant Marxists might come to pass, as it often has before. I reiterate, in what way have you done more than me?
Appeals to normality now, huh? How’s it going?
This was in a thread talking about their ideology, and how it is opposed to Marxism. I am not pitting a Mexican settler state against indigenous people in general, I am expecting that a socialist state in Mexico would needs center and prioritize indigenous people, and suggesting that that state might end up in conflict with a specific indigenous organization with a passionate difference in ideology.
The point, which is going waaaaaayyyyyyy over your head is that it’s not the place of a bunch of white people to surmise or steer the discourse on what indigenous people should be doing. If you respect them and their autonomy, as you say you do, then you would listen to what they have to say or mind your own business. An armchair socialist isn’t the peer of actual fighters and border defenders. Buying some coffee doesn’t mean you own a share in your investment or whatever you think that affords you.
I mean, I phrased it as question because it was. You could have answered the question in any way you chose, and immediately jumped to attacking me as a chauvinist. I don’t think I get to decide what they do, but I’m free to be skeptical of their choices not to affiliate with others (I make the same criticism of the IWW). I didn’t claim I’m on the same level as someone engaged in armed struggle and even acknowledged I wasn’t before, I don’t know what point you think you’re making there.
Because you boiled the struggle of an alliance between multiple neighboring Mayan ethnic groups to resist colonization and subsist on their own land without being beholden to the interests of European/USian powers, something many other indigenous societies succumbed to, including the Inca and Aztec Empires to “playing commune out in the jungle”. It shows a complete and naive misunderstanding of the issue. You speak with authority when you have nothing of interest to say. That’s how it was so easy for me to clock you as white.
Your opinion was so much more haughty than my original explanation and when you encounter resistance to your holier than thou mentality you cry like a little fascist. If you really are a marxist then do some self-crit and distance yourself from this superiority complex you’ve got going on. It’s unhelpful.
I am not suggesting “getting rid” of anyone. Where do you think I said that? I am talking about a political of two ideologies that do not get along potentially fighting each other, not ethnic cleansing or genocide, and that is completely clear. I am clearly advocating solidarity between indigenous groups, and between peasants and proletarians, and you think this is somehow the CIA. I have made clear I am not advocating violence against them, but rather entertaining what you seem not to acknowledge is the possibility of conflict between Marxists and non-Marxists. I have clarified that I think indigenous people need to at the center of the socialist movement in Mexico, and this has convinced you that I hate indigenous people, makes perfect sense. Their rejection of Marxism could put them at odds with a broader nationwide movement in the future, and that is what I am talking about.
Again, what ways have you supported them, other than suggesting that I hate them, which you seem to think is super helpful to them.
You are a cracker who thinks buying coffee and posting online are revolutionary activities
And the most effort you’ve put into anything is impotent shitposting, so tone it down, kettle.
It’s all I can do short of flying there and picking up a rifle. I’m in and have been in a couple of orgs in real life that have given messages of support their way. What have you done for them?
I’m not the one fantasizing about crushing indigenous peoples if they don’t comply
I’m not fantasizing about it, I was asking if it might have to happen. This is not the same as saying that it is should happen, this is wondering if conflict between militant non-Marxists and militant Marxists might come to pass, as it often has before. I reiterate, in what way have you done more than me?
NORMAL PEOPLE do NOT go around “asking questions” about whether or not indigenous people should be crushed
Appeals to normality now, huh? How’s it going? This was in a thread talking about their ideology, and how it is opposed to Marxism. I am not pitting a Mexican settler state against indigenous people in general, I am expecting that a socialist state in Mexico would needs center and prioritize indigenous people, and suggesting that that state might end up in conflict with a specific indigenous organization with a passionate difference in ideology.
The point, which is going waaaaaayyyyyyy over your head is that it’s not the place of a bunch of white people to surmise or steer the discourse on what indigenous people should be doing. If you respect them and their autonomy, as you say you do, then you would listen to what they have to say or mind your own business. An armchair socialist isn’t the peer of actual fighters and border defenders. Buying some coffee doesn’t mean you own a share in your investment or whatever you think that affords you.
I mean, I phrased it as question because it was. You could have answered the question in any way you chose, and immediately jumped to attacking me as a chauvinist. I don’t think I get to decide what they do, but I’m free to be skeptical of their choices not to affiliate with others (I make the same criticism of the IWW). I didn’t claim I’m on the same level as someone engaged in armed struggle and even acknowledged I wasn’t before, I don’t know what point you think you’re making there.
Because you boiled the struggle of an alliance between multiple neighboring Mayan ethnic groups to resist colonization and subsist on their own land without being beholden to the interests of European/USian powers, something many other indigenous societies succumbed to, including the Inca and Aztec Empires to “playing commune out in the jungle”. It shows a complete and naive misunderstanding of the issue. You speak with authority when you have nothing of interest to say. That’s how it was so easy for me to clock you as white.
Your opinion was so much more haughty than my original explanation and when you encounter resistance to your holier than thou mentality you cry like a little fascist. If you really are a marxist then do some self-crit and distance yourself from this superiority complex you’ve got going on. It’s unhelpful.
Ad hominem. Whataboutism. Third buzzword.
Hmmmm, gee, I wonder who else wanted to get rid of the “problematic natives”
Hey, look on the bright side, you’ve got a *glowing* career down at the CIA
I am not suggesting “getting rid” of anyone. Where do you think I said that? I am talking about a political of two ideologies that do not get along potentially fighting each other, not ethnic cleansing or genocide, and that is completely clear. I am clearly advocating solidarity between indigenous groups, and between peasants and proletarians, and you think this is somehow the CIA. I have made clear I am not advocating violence against them, but rather entertaining what you seem not to acknowledge is the possibility of conflict between Marxists and non-Marxists. I have clarified that I think indigenous people need to at the center of the socialist movement in Mexico, and this has convinced you that I hate indigenous people, makes perfect sense. Their rejection of Marxism could put them at odds with a broader nationwide movement in the future, and that is what I am talking about.
Again, what ways have you supported them, other than suggesting that I hate them, which you seem to think is super helpful to them.
You were “asking questions” about them being crushed if they don’t agree with your hypothetical future Mexican state.
You are clearly advocating “solidarity” between groups that agree with your idea of Marxism, and destruction for those who don’t