Germany suspects the Nord Stream gas pipeline system was damaged by an act of sabotage, in what would amount to a major escalation in the standoff between Russia and Europe.
I made no claims about America, but Russia is particularly bad when it comes to lies. Remember when all of this was starting and they were waving away a massive buildup of tanks as a training drill? Russia makes claims of genocide by Ukraine while denying well documented mass murder of Ukrainian civilians. It claims that US contractors are deploying chemical weapons in the Donbass region. Then there were the transparent lies around Flight MH17. The US lies from time to time, it is true. But Russia lies habitually in a firehose of misinformation to confuse between truth and fiction. It is like comparing Trump and his habitual lying with a more normal politicians occasional truth stretching. Not even the same league.
The plane was almost certainly shot down by separatists who mistakened it for a Ukrainian air force bomber. They then prevented any neutral third party from investigating.
Claims of genocide by the Ukrainian government. There have been no such efforts from the government. The worst I have seen in concrete terms is trying to force Russian speakers to use Ukrainian, and that had been limited. It’s mostly just fear mongering.
There have been, and they’re well documented. I’ve linked western sources detailing such efforts in many threads now.
The worst I have seen in concrete terms is trying to force Russian speakers to use Ukrainian, and that had been limited. It’s mostly just fear mongering.
Then you clearly haven’t bothered looking very hard, here are a few things you could start reading to educate yourself:
Seriously tho, what motivation would Russia have to bomb something that brings them profit? It makes as much sense as the US bombing its own gas pipelines.
What profit motive would Russia have to invade Ukraine, knowing there would be massive economic backlash? They’re not motivated by simple profit calculations at the moment. And it’s not like that pipeline is bringing them profit now. For that matter, it may never bring them profit again with a Europe that will be reluctant to return to relying on an unreliable source of energy.
Ukraine has been invading and bombing the donbass with impunity since 2014, over 8k civilians killed in that time. Defending their border areas, and the lives of russian-speaking peoples, is a core strategic interest. Keeping those areas stable does help their profit in the long term. Why was Ukraine attacking the donbass, if that’s wrecking their country now?
And it’s not like that pipeline is bringing them profit now.
That’s the US’s goal, not Russia’s! Russia very much wants to continue selling gas via the pipelines.
on an unreliable source of energy.
When the US sabotages infrastructure projects, they’re “unreliable”. This is like saying I burned down your farm, so you must have no interest in keeping it since its unreliable.
Why was Ukraine attacking the donbass, if that’s wrecking their country now?
Because there are separatists in the region who were obviously going to eventually “ask” to join Russia. Is Ukraine supposed to sit by idly while Russia takes more and more of its territory under the pretense of protecting Russian speakers? Are you aware of Hitler’s similar moves during WW2? This isn’t about economics, it’s about a country’s sovereignty.
When the US sabotages infrastructure projects, they’re “unreliable”. This is like saying I burned down your farm, so you must have no interest in keeping it since its unreliable.
That’s not what I mean when I say unreliable. I mean a source that becomes a security threat. It’s become clear that the Cold War and Russian imperialism never were truly over for some Russians, especially at the top.
This is coming a week after Russia said they stopped a Ukrainian attack on energy infrastructure linking Russia to Turkey and the rest of Europe as the article mentions but for some reason doesn’t link to (and this is better to avoid the paywall anyway)
Interesting, but seeing as it’s Russia making the claim it could well just be disinformation.
“Russia bad. America good. I’m a free thinker. You’re a brainwashed tankie.”
I made no claims about America, but Russia is particularly bad when it comes to lies. Remember when all of this was starting and they were waving away a massive buildup of tanks as a training drill? Russia makes claims of genocide by Ukraine while denying well documented mass murder of Ukrainian civilians. It claims that US contractors are deploying chemical weapons in the Donbass region. Then there were the transparent lies around Flight MH17. The US lies from time to time, it is true. But Russia lies habitually in a firehose of misinformation to confuse between truth and fiction. It is like comparing Trump and his habitual lying with a more normal politicians occasional truth stretching. Not even the same league.
If only I had your level of denial, then maybe I wouldn’t be so miserable living in the West.
Honey. Is this the secret to all these eurolibs pretending that everything is fine?
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The plane was almost certainly shot down by separatists who mistakened it for a Ukrainian air force bomber. They then prevented any neutral third party from investigating.
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If only you showed the same level of skepticism when it comes to western propaganda.
If only you showed the same level of skepticism when it comes to Russian propaganda.
Oh I do, there is plenty of wild stuff coming out of Russia that’s just as laughable as the stuff put out by the west.
Then maybe do me a solid and respond to some of the people here who are echoing Kremlin propaganda, eh?
Please be specific what it is you claim to be Kremlin propaganda in this thread and why.
Claims of genocide by the Ukrainian government. There have been no such efforts from the government. The worst I have seen in concrete terms is trying to force Russian speakers to use Ukrainian, and that had been limited. It’s mostly just fear mongering.
There have been, and they’re well documented. I’ve linked western sources detailing such efforts in many threads now.
Then you clearly haven’t bothered looking very hard, here are a few things you could start reading to educate yourself:
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Russia = untrustworthy, we all know that. /s
Seriously tho, what motivation would Russia have to bomb something that brings them profit? It makes as much sense as the US bombing its own gas pipelines.
What profit motive would Russia have to invade Ukraine, knowing there would be massive economic backlash? They’re not motivated by simple profit calculations at the moment. And it’s not like that pipeline is bringing them profit now. For that matter, it may never bring them profit again with a Europe that will be reluctant to return to relying on an unreliable source of energy.
Ukraine has been invading and bombing the donbass with impunity since 2014, over 8k civilians killed in that time. Defending their border areas, and the lives of russian-speaking peoples, is a core strategic interest. Keeping those areas stable does help their profit in the long term. Why was Ukraine attacking the donbass, if that’s wrecking their country now?
That’s the US’s goal, not Russia’s! Russia very much wants to continue selling gas via the pipelines.
When the US sabotages infrastructure projects, they’re “unreliable”. This is like saying I burned down your farm, so you must have no interest in keeping it since its unreliable.
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Because there are separatists in the region who were obviously going to eventually “ask” to join Russia. Is Ukraine supposed to sit by idly while Russia takes more and more of its territory under the pretense of protecting Russian speakers? Are you aware of Hitler’s similar moves during WW2? This isn’t about economics, it’s about a country’s sovereignty.
That’s not what I mean when I say unreliable. I mean a source that becomes a security threat. It’s become clear that the Cold War and Russian imperialism never were truly over for some Russians, especially at the top.
You mean genociding russian-speaking ppls in eastern europe, exactly like what ukraine is doing? BTW the current Ukrainian government is erecting monuments to their nazi collaborators as fast as they can.
According to who, Russia? Putin? The man lies as easily as he breathes.
Let’s just see what HRW, a famous Putin puppet, has to say https://www.hrw.org/report/2016/07/21/you-dont-exist/arbitrary-detentions-enforced-disappearances-and-torture-eastern
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