Keep in mind, I am not Russian, and that I do not consider Russia to be imperialist. I do have this one question however.

Considering that the Russian communist party originally disagreed with going beyond Donbas and invading the rest of Ukraine too (and also because in WW1, it was the communists who decided against continuing to fight in the war, but that is distant history), I have to ask, is this truly a fight for Russia’s survival, that absolutely necessitates drafting regular people, at this point in the conflict?

The draft, despite being partial and applicable to ex-soldiers only, still affects some people that have nothing to do with the army - this is happening because there are quotas that need to be fulfilled. Some privileged people also seem to have been given immunity from it, and some protesters were also drafted:

https://zona.media/chronicle/211#49874

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-excludes-some-it-professionals-bankers-state-journalists-mobilisation-2022-09-23/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/22/russia-mobilisation-ukraine-war-army-drive

Assuming that all of these stories are true, what should regular Russians do about it? Should they do anything, should they oppose it? And, if these stories are not true, should they still do something? Even if it’s true that only ex-soldiers are being drafted, that still carries a similar weight with it - because they are still just regular people, who could have joined the army for a variety of reasons, voluntarily or otherwise.

I know next to nothing about Russia, the true state of the Ukraine conflict, and the present threat level that NATO poses. All I know is that multipolarity is preferable to unipolarity, but is this the only correct path forward towards that goal?

  • @chinawatcherwatcher
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    102 years ago

    i’m honestly very confused by this comment. if it’s shameful to make moral statements about theoretical or actual drafts, then why are you strongly implying that drafts are immoral? as primarily westerners, we discuss things that don’t directly affect us all the time, just by virtue of being westerners. i thought we did this with the full understanding that our discussion very rarely affects much of anything, especially without any material organization. what makes this case any different?

    the actual content of your argument seems focused on the morality of drafts in the general sense, which i will address. drafts are a tool of the state, enacted through threat of and a monopoly on violence. because drafts are state policy, like literally any other state policy they should primarily be judged by the class character of the state in question. is it socialist or capitalist, is it in the core or periphery, is it fighting for its sovereignty against aggression or being aggressive itself?

    i think the most important thing to understand here is that drafts are seen as tools of necessity, i.e. generally a last resort, by those enacting the draft. literally no populace wants a draft, at the very least unanimously. how true that actually is, again, generally relies on geopolitics and class character like any war does. the US draft for vietnam was an act of desperation to complete a decade-long war, but was obviously not justified given the imperialist aggression. the draft in the USSR was an act of desperation to continue to exist as a state, and i hope we can all agree that in this case it was not only justified but necessary. in fact, the USSR had a shoot-to-kill policy against deserters, which as brutal as it was, was enacted because of how desperate the situation was.

    the other thing i’ll say about drafts generally is that it’s not an either/or thing, there can be degrees to which a draft is in service of the working class, so long as the aim of the war is also in their interest. i’m talking about things like drafting the elderly and children, which nazis did in their last days. or, drafting inexperienced people for the front lines, regardless of perceived or real necessity.

    what about in the specific case of russia? let me preface by saying that almost all of us, including me, are not qualified to say very much regarding the specifics of the draft in russia, which is all the more reason why we should not take places like reuters and the guardian (literal MI6 operations) at their word before investigating further. however, we can be pretty certain that given the nature of drafts, the russian state sees this as a necessary act (again, whether or not this is actually true) in the same way that they saw starting the original SMO as a necessary act to defend its sovereignty. given that russia is currently de facto at war with NATO in ukraine, i could perceive this escalation as either wanting to finish what was started ASAP, as a preemptive escalation to prepare for total war with NATO, or both. as far as the class character of russia, it is industrial bourgeois with relatively strong state power and industry, taking an anti-imperialist stance against the west and alongside the global south. imperialism is the primary contradiction in our global society today, but the lack of socialism and proletarian dominance opens up space for criticism. make of all of this what you will.

    do i wish that we lived in a world without drafts? yes. i also wish we lived in a world without weapons, war, and exploitation, but that’s not the hand that any of us was given. personally it’s a little ridiculous for me to see “drafts are always bad in every situation, and i would dodge every theoretical draft” because this is ahistorical and implies a metaphysics of morality. do you also morally decry the USSR’s draft? if china were on the brink of destruction and implemented a draft out of necessity, would you also morally decry it?

    • CritiGalDesist∞
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      62 years ago

      +1
      although no one would like to be get drafted (including me) voluntarily. It’s a last resort and a necessary measure to protect the state 🙂 We do not live in a Disneyland

    • @Kind_Stone
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      42 years ago

      As somebody from Russia, I would be fine with USSR draft. Protecting my Motherland and fellow workers from capitalist assholes is a thing I find worthy to put my life on. However, paying with my own blood for capitalist geopolitical games and our bourgeoisie - I do not find appealing.

      I am sitting here, in Russia, in contact with soldiers and all news on the line and I can see how all this shit is going on. The whole operation which some morons around here put as a line of victories with inevitable success was a line of fuckups over fuckups. Day by day. Driving us closer not to the inevitable victory, but to a certain fucking defeat. Without the mobilization it all was doomed to fail. It was supposed to happen way before Ukraine got saturated with high-quality western weaponry, while they were weak. Now when it’s fucking late they suddenly decide it’s time to go.

      THEY allowed those Nazis to breed there calmly for YEARS. DECADES. THEY destroyed the big united country we lived in. THEY turned our lives into an endless ocean of fucking despair, which we experience daily walking out into the dimming daylight. THEY robbed us of any fucking future. Now THEY are sending us to die for them. WE will be sitting there on the frontlines with no medicine (confirmed problem, even bandages are scarce), no food (confirmed by relatives who returned from the front, those cases of maraudeurs going for stuff in Ukraine might’ve been caused by lack of food supplies), no equipment (confirmed by fellas in the acting military, no optics, no NVGs, lack of simple things like leg and arm protection, lack of additional uniforms). While THEY and THEIR children, like young “Master Peskov” and other similar removed will be sitting in safety.

      I would rather shoot those fucking smug capitalist assholes who are sending us to die for their fuckups and their cash. Nazis can wait. We’ve got similar nazi capitalists sitting right here. They just play their games with the good guy faces right now. In reality, in peace time they can do as much shit as those fuckers in Ukraine. They just don’t need swastikas to rally their supporters, they’ve got different symbols for that.