🏴☠️#USEmpire 🍔🦠#USA
WARNING 18+ Adult content & US racism.
Perhaps the most depraved, racist & disgusting thing we have ever reported:
Sick Americans are making porn based on the US government & ETIM claim of genocide & concentration camps in Xinjiang, China.
Nothing more needs saying from us, just look at this degenerate crap.
🥭@mangopress
triggering? wtf? why?
maybe you should take that emotional discomfort/cognitive dissonance towards arguments that make you feel strange as a learning moment. but okay. you do you…
pornography/prostitution in and by themselves are not “sexual violence” and yes, sexual violence is bad and needs to be fought. totally agree, but you cannot conflate them. it’s like homophobes conflate lgbtq people with pedophiles. doesn’t give justice to the issue at hand or to the larger class of participants.
(sexual) exploitation and violence in both, prostitution and pornography need to be fought, in this we are comrades. but i m not fighting concepts like prostitution or pornography themselves, that would be somewhere between utopian stalinism and medieval catholic fascism, at least way too authoritarian for it to not create enormous amounts of suffering. way beyound what legalized and regulated prostitution could bring.
is the market exploiting its participants? does it create toxic behaviour and exploitation? then crack down on it where it happens. that is market regulation and a function of the state. and has nothing to do with abstract constructs one declares enemy like DonQuixote attacked windmills in his illusion of grandeur. Because honestly, the DonQuixote spirit, i can sense this shit miles away from here. idealistic it may be, but not constructive imho
Let’s try discussing this another day. I genuinely can’t give you anything more productive than a bunch of insults. You make the effort to read Marxist feminists opinions on this. Stop assuming it has anything to do with puritanism, I’ll stop assuming you love sexual violence.
i don’t love sexual violence and neither do i think you wanna crack down on some fragment of poor single mothers (side) hustle or its non-violent customers. or the dorks in their cellar jerking off (which they would do over ceramic depictions of thicc ladies, historically…). crack down on the pornhub owners for their theft and abuse of its platform users and its de facto monopolisation without representation - especially in BDSM porn industries -, or reducing incentives for predation of migrant women by allowing them to work and receive support, yes, i m all for that.
i think, the marxist thing is to see it as labour. labour needs regulation and representation against exploitation. and the more solidarity non-prostitutes have with prostitutes the better.
I mean, let’s start at the church, how about we give those swole apostles in the stages of the cross some proper t-shirts. isn’t that a form of soft sex pornography related to involuntary BDSM? And why do you think those poor farmers wives loved to sit at the church and look at these images and the jacked white hippie jesus on the cross looking all empathic and with white skin, clean hands, unlike their earth shoveling, cow milking, pig-slaughtering husbands… … to whom they were largely (forcibly) married because of economic and generational interdependencies
Even by liberal feminist standards what sex workers want is decriminalization and not legalization. Even liberals see that making the state a pimp is bullshit liberation.
I don’t believe you’ve ever reflected on this topic beyond what’s normal and confortable to you in our current society.
I also had a strong reaction when I learned about sex trade abolition and made every point you are. Good thing this isn’t new thought and I’m not smarter than every other comrade who wrote about it. And yes, marriage is discussed here because it’s related to prostitution.
And no, even M&E thought prostitution was the harshest exploitation the bourgeoisie instilled on the proletariat. Not mere “labour”. Read Engels.
PS: it’s funny that you think that pornography is necessary for sexual and erotic expression. Because, as even porn actors will tell you, porn is not sex.
1.)who says you should make the state the pimp, now you are just twisting my words. i call for regulation, not monopoly.
2.) yeah, and war on drugs and war on terror sounded great in the beginning too…
3.)yes, at the time - with feudal pimp culture - prostitution must have been horrid, no question. again: exploitation, economics. not the exchange in itself.
4.)more framing, never said anything of the sorts. also: did you know, that movies are in fact just fictitious stories and the people in them are only actors?
> I don’t believe you’ve ever reflected on this topic beyond what’s normal and confortable to you in our current society.
> I genuinely can’t give you anything more productive than a bunch of insults. You make the effort to read Marxist feminists opinions on this. Stop assuming it has anything to do with puritanism, I’ll stop assuming you love sexual violence.
I’ll only address this:
not the exchange in itself.
The exchange in itself is coercive. The fact that you need to push someone’s boundaries with money shows that they wouldn’t consent to sex if you didn’t hold power over their head.
This is not consensual sex. This is rape. This is violent.
If a person has to have sex with someone in order to keep shelter and food they have been robbed from their ability to consent to it. Be they a prostitute, a wife, a friend or an office employee.
Sex is consensual. Prostitution is not sex, it’s sexual exploitation.
I don’t want to continue this conversation but if you choose to, please DM me because I’m tired of seeing this post talking about pornography simulating genocide. This topic is upsetting enough by itself, don’t need to be reminded of porn sick racists.
well, in principle i agree with almost all of your points, but said power imbalance is only facilitated by economic inbalance engrained in and facilitated by the system and conditioned into behaviour by religion and “morals” (morals which destroy the bargaining power of women or their sexual power). this is my key point here.
and while moral concepts or outrages may lead to problems being adressed, it seldomly leads to them actually being solved, because the outrage itself makes any realistic debate toxic to begin with. same with ukraine vs russia or any topic
hence what you have to attack is the (socioeconomic)power differential. so as much as a value a feminist perspective, this can be solved with marxist principles alone. also: don’t hate the players, hate the game. also, don’t tell the people they can’t eat bread if you doń’t give them something else to eat…
also, what is your solution? what have mullahs, the taliban, the catholic church and all the adherents of banning prostitution/pornography/weed&whatnot not tried or actually done for the women subjected to these industries? Sold their image and the drama projected onto it on TV for ad cash? called them witches? stoned them to death? for what? because they were afraid of women potentially sitting on literal goldmines
(addendum: i live in a country with legal but regulated prostitution. i am personally not a customer because i find it gross, but hey, not everyone has my carnal sensitivities, i ve talked to older strippers in bars who told me that they were educated in girls only schools until they escaped and ended up liking hairy fat men and dick more than sitting at a cash register and that they had worse experiences with boyfriends than with paying customers… of course this is anecdotal, but i believe it’s a spectrum rather than black&white)
triggering? wtf? why? maybe you should take that emotional discomfort/cognitive dissonance towards arguments that make you feel strange as a learning moment. but okay. you do you…
Sexual violence is a very common trigger. I have long since learned that sexual violence is defended in many spaces.
I don’t feel “strange”, the fuck is wrong with you.
pornography/prostitution in and by themselves are not “sexual violence” and yes, sexual violence is bad and needs to be fought. totally agree, but you cannot conflate them. it’s like homophobes conflate lgbtq people with pedophiles. doesn’t give justice to the issue at hand or to the larger class of participants.
(sexual) exploitation and violence in both, prostitution and pornography need to be fought, in this we are comrades. but i m not fighting concepts like prostitution or pornography themselves, that would be somewhere between utopian stalinism and medieval catholic fascism, at least way too authoritarian for it to not create enormous amounts of suffering. way beyound what legalized and regulated prostitution could bring.
is the market exploiting its participants? does it create toxic behaviour and exploitation? then crack down on it where it happens. that is market regulation and a function of the state. and has nothing to do with abstract constructs one declares enemy like DonQuixote attacked windmills in his illusion of grandeur. Because honestly, the DonQuixote spirit, i can sense this shit miles away from here. idealistic it may be, but not constructive imho
Let’s try discussing this another day. I genuinely can’t give you anything more productive than a bunch of insults. You make the effort to read Marxist feminists opinions on this. Stop assuming it has anything to do with puritanism, I’ll stop assuming you love sexual violence.
i don’t love sexual violence and neither do i think you wanna crack down on some fragment of poor single mothers (side) hustle or its non-violent customers. or the dorks in their cellar jerking off (which they would do over ceramic depictions of thicc ladies, historically…). crack down on the pornhub owners for their theft and abuse of its platform users and its de facto monopolisation without representation - especially in BDSM porn industries -, or reducing incentives for predation of migrant women by allowing them to work and receive support, yes, i m all for that.
i think, the marxist thing is to see it as labour. labour needs regulation and representation against exploitation. and the more solidarity non-prostitutes have with prostitutes the better.
I mean, let’s start at the church, how about we give those swole apostles in the stages of the cross some proper t-shirts. isn’t that a form of soft sex pornography related to involuntary BDSM? And why do you think those poor farmers wives loved to sit at the church and look at these images and the jacked white hippie jesus on the cross looking all empathic and with white skin, clean hands, unlike their earth shoveling, cow milking, pig-slaughtering husbands… … to whom they were largely (forcibly) married because of economic and generational interdependencies
Even by liberal feminist standards what sex workers want is decriminalization and not legalization. Even liberals see that making the state a pimp is bullshit liberation.
I don’t believe you’ve ever reflected on this topic beyond what’s normal and confortable to you in our current society.
I also had a strong reaction when I learned about sex trade abolition and made every point you are. Good thing this isn’t new thought and I’m not smarter than every other comrade who wrote about it. And yes, marriage is discussed here because it’s related to prostitution.
And no, even M&E thought prostitution was the harshest exploitation the bourgeoisie instilled on the proletariat. Not mere “labour”. Read Engels.
PS: it’s funny that you think that pornography is necessary for sexual and erotic expression. Because, as even porn actors will tell you, porn is not sex.
you are being one shitty framelord
1.)who says you should make the state the pimp, now you are just twisting my words. i call for regulation, not monopoly.
2.) yeah, and war on drugs and war on terror sounded great in the beginning too…
3.)yes, at the time - with feudal pimp culture - prostitution must have been horrid, no question. again: exploitation, economics. not the exchange in itself.
4.)more framing, never said anything of the sorts. also: did you know, that movies are in fact just fictitious stories and the people in them are only actors?
> I don’t believe you’ve ever reflected on this topic beyond what’s normal and confortable to you in our current society.
> I genuinely can’t give you anything more productive than a bunch of insults. You make the effort to read Marxist feminists opinions on this. Stop assuming it has anything to do with puritanism, I’ll stop assuming you love sexual violence.
I’ll only address this:
The exchange in itself is coercive. The fact that you need to push someone’s boundaries with money shows that they wouldn’t consent to sex if you didn’t hold power over their head.
This is not consensual sex. This is rape. This is violent.
If a person has to have sex with someone in order to keep shelter and food they have been robbed from their ability to consent to it. Be they a prostitute, a wife, a friend or an office employee.
Sex is consensual. Prostitution is not sex, it’s sexual exploitation.
I don’t want to continue this conversation but if you choose to, please DM me because I’m tired of seeing this post talking about pornography simulating genocide. This topic is upsetting enough by itself, don’t need to be reminded of porn sick racists.
well, in principle i agree with almost all of your points, but said power imbalance is only facilitated by economic inbalance engrained in and facilitated by the system and conditioned into behaviour by religion and “morals” (morals which destroy the bargaining power of women or their sexual power). this is my key point here.
and while moral concepts or outrages may lead to problems being adressed, it seldomly leads to them actually being solved, because the outrage itself makes any realistic debate toxic to begin with. same with ukraine vs russia or any topic
hence what you have to attack is the (socioeconomic)power differential. so as much as a value a feminist perspective, this can be solved with marxist principles alone. also: don’t hate the players, hate the game. also, don’t tell the people they can’t eat bread if you doń’t give them something else to eat…
also, what is your solution? what have mullahs, the taliban, the catholic church and all the adherents of banning prostitution/pornography/weed&whatnot not tried or actually done for the women subjected to these industries? Sold their image and the drama projected onto it on TV for ad cash? called them witches? stoned them to death? for what? because they were afraid of women potentially sitting on literal goldmines
(addendum: i live in a country with legal but regulated prostitution. i am personally not a customer because i find it gross, but hey, not everyone has my carnal sensitivities, i ve talked to older strippers in bars who told me that they were educated in girls only schools until they escaped and ended up liking hairy fat men and dick more than sitting at a cash register and that they had worse experiences with boyfriends than with paying customers… of course this is anecdotal, but i believe it’s a spectrum rather than black&white)