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  • Marxism-Fennekinism
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    13 years ago

    Another thing, since you mentioned “it is necessary in china due to being under constant attack from the capitalist powers.” If the whole world went socialist/communist, do you see state surveillance going down?

    • @chad1234
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      3 years ago

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      Key thing is that the socialist society has to be a functional and stable society. So similarly for police, there will need to be police in the socialist society and similarly for other elements of the state: surveillance, state security, military etc

      Many Western leftists on internet say that their version of socialism will have no police, prison, state security, military etc. no hierarchical oppression etc. And somehow people will all be well behaved and there will be social shaming of criminals or some sort of criminal justice system without police and prisons. Obviously, such a society would soon crumble and be unviable in real life. Perhaps mainstream Western leftism is very simplified and idealistic and focused on classing various things as “bad” without thinking about how they function in the system of capitalist production.

      The recent anti-police protests in USA. the focus was solely on the police behavior and protesters demanded abolishing or defunding them. However, without police, the capitalist system would cease to function due to lack of enforcement of property claims. It is not surprising that none of the police departments have actually been abolished and any defunding was a tiny portion for maybe 1 year.

      So, its not that police/ surveillance/ other state functions = bad, but rather they are bad because of their role in enforcing capitalism and imperialism.

    • @chad1234
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      23 years ago

      Western surveillance is intensifying due to the contradictions of capitalism and conflicts from imperialism. a few years ago capitalism was stable enough such that anti-capitalists were not being banned from the R place

      there should be less need for surveillance once class conflict is resolved with whole world being socialist. however, there will be elements of the ancien regime which will have to be dealt with

    • @chad1234
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      13 years ago

      ive not thought about it much since it will likely be many decades in the future at least