Yes, and I support China stealing whatever it deems productive it steal in terms of IP from the US. The point is that there’s a trope about China only being able to make knock-offs and only having the success it has from stealing which is ultimately a chauvinist caricature.
It’s a jingoistic caricature. I’m not informed enough to know the difference what the difference between standards are for products of the two countries.
I do agree there is a common sentiment that Chinese products are inferior to their American counterparts. If China or the USA want to steal product specs from each other to make better products that we end up buying, cool. I’d rather buy better products and I’m sure you would too.
I was coming at it more from the standpoint that undercutting the US by taking its IP (i.e. not actually impoverishing members of the general population) is a good thing for the world, but your point is also fair.
I completely agree. I hate most IP laws because I believe it stifles progress that we as a human race can all benefit from. There are of course exceptions but none really come to mind right now. No one should have to go hungry so someone else can have more money than they know what to do with.
Well if we are talking about sentiments, I can’t recall a single product where anyone prefers a Chinese counterpart compared to European, Canadian, American, Japanese etc product.
Not sure if the blame can be put on Chinese though since a lot of American companies outsource their manufacturing to China. Companies that do this try to cut costs and probably do so on the specs that they want the Chinese to build for them.
The common belief here is that there is less oversight and laws in the manufacturing process so an item that might not pass inspection in another country would pass in China.
Chinese manufacturing is ubiquitous though so trading will continue happening on a massive scale for the foreseeable future. I imagine the manufacturing process will only get better as well. At the same time American companies doing business with china may call for cheap specs on a product thus giving china a bad rep.
This is just how I see it as an American who has no issue with China.
Right, every country and company engages in tech espionage. Yet, a lot of people in the west pretend as if China is some unique outlier in that regard.
I understand that the pro China sentiments are strong here and I’m going to be downvoted. I live in the DC area and people around here are aware that everyone is involved in espionage. Russia does it all the time too.
No one believes that china is the only one doing this. Their capacity to do so may be stronger than most countries (same with USA)
It’s always going to be an issue for every advanced country.
I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make here. Yes, every country spies to the best of their capacity, that’s the nature of the game. While no sane person believes that China is the only one doing this, we constantly get media stories framed that way and there are a lot of mouth breathers running around screeching that China steals western tech. I think the only actual issue is the existence of copyrights and intellectual property. These stand directly in the way of human advancement and should be abolished.
Well of course USA media isn’t going to say “USA got caught stealing IP from china” or anything like that. I’d wager that China doesn’t do it either lol. They both accuse each other while at the same time reaching into each others back pockets. Ones not better than the other.
China has also been doing things like ensuring that everyone has housing with 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world.China’s been improving real wages (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) that have gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country, and making sure people have high social mobility.
So, yeah one’s a lot better than the other when you look at the outcomes. This meme basically sums up the dynamic perfectly.
I understand your points even if they are off topic. I wish everyone would be rich and prosperous. I have nothing against the Chinese and the ones I’ve met around me have all been great people. It’s easy to get lost in government dick swinging
The reason you’re getting downvoted is probably more of a reflex than anything else. We get a lot of concern trolls here who love to sealion and generally be obnoxious and annoying.
Just be sure to actually listen to what we have to say (you don’t need to change you mind though) and respond appropriately and you’ll be fine. If you just talk past us and accuse us of things we don’t actually believe, yeah, you’re going to get downvotes, same as if you tried that on any social media platform.
I kind of just wandered in here from /all and didn’t realize what kind of sub this was before I started commenting, lol. Very interesting to read though
At least you bothered to actually check the sidebar and work out what sub this was before commenting. A lot of these people can’t even be bothered to do that.
I’m on Memmy but it just shows “no description”. I kind of got the vibe here by seeing the icon and the comments. It’s cool though - good to see insights from different viewpoints rather than those from my own usual haunts. That’s the cool part about Lemmy, lots of different groups on here just doing their thing without much blind bigotry.
I’m sure the lobbyists and congresscritters in DC have a more realist view in private. Doesn’t really change what sort of sentiment they push to the masses.
The difference is the U.S. started it, and for no real legitimate reason, other than profit and domination. When China does it, it’s revenge/retribution/just desserts.
I’m not sure there’s any way to claim “who started it” and I really don’t think it matters whether it was China, France, USA or Russia. It was inevitable and will always exist.
As always, US doing the things it accuses China of.
deleted by creator
I think we can agree that they both steal and accuse each other. Why wouldn’t they?
Yes, and I support China stealing whatever it deems productive it steal in terms of IP from the US. The point is that there’s a trope about China only being able to make knock-offs and only having the success it has from stealing which is ultimately a chauvinist caricature.
It’s a jingoistic caricature. I’m not informed enough to know the difference what the difference between standards are for products of the two countries.
I do agree there is a common sentiment that Chinese products are inferior to their American counterparts. If China or the USA want to steal product specs from each other to make better products that we end up buying, cool. I’d rather buy better products and I’m sure you would too.
I was coming at it more from the standpoint that undercutting the US by taking its IP (i.e. not actually impoverishing members of the general population) is a good thing for the world, but your point is also fair.
I completely agree. I hate most IP laws because I believe it stifles progress that we as a human race can all benefit from. There are of course exceptions but none really come to mind right now. No one should have to go hungry so someone else can have more money than they know what to do with.
deleted by creator
Well if we are talking about sentiments, I can’t recall a single product where anyone prefers a Chinese counterpart compared to European, Canadian, American, Japanese etc product.
Not sure if the blame can be put on Chinese though since a lot of American companies outsource their manufacturing to China. Companies that do this try to cut costs and probably do so on the specs that they want the Chinese to build for them.
The common belief here is that there is less oversight and laws in the manufacturing process so an item that might not pass inspection in another country would pass in China.
Chinese manufacturing is ubiquitous though so trading will continue happening on a massive scale for the foreseeable future. I imagine the manufacturing process will only get better as well. At the same time American companies doing business with china may call for cheap specs on a product thus giving china a bad rep.
This is just how I see it as an American who has no issue with China.
Right, every country and company engages in tech espionage. Yet, a lot of people in the west pretend as if China is some unique outlier in that regard.
I understand that the pro China sentiments are strong here and I’m going to be downvoted. I live in the DC area and people around here are aware that everyone is involved in espionage. Russia does it all the time too.
No one believes that china is the only one doing this. Their capacity to do so may be stronger than most countries (same with USA)
It’s always going to be an issue for every advanced country.
I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make here. Yes, every country spies to the best of their capacity, that’s the nature of the game. While no sane person believes that China is the only one doing this, we constantly get media stories framed that way and there are a lot of mouth breathers running around screeching that China steals western tech. I think the only actual issue is the existence of copyrights and intellectual property. These stand directly in the way of human advancement and should be abolished.
Well of course USA media isn’t going to say “USA got caught stealing IP from china” or anything like that. I’d wager that China doesn’t do it either lol. They both accuse each other while at the same time reaching into each others back pockets. Ones not better than the other.
I get the impression that US talks about China a lot more than China talks about the US.
While US keeps perseverating over China collapsing, China stealing US tech, China becoming a global power, and so on, China’s been busy working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, building infrastructure having used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, building 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.
China has also been doing things like ensuring that everyone has housing with 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world.China’s been improving real wages (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) that have gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country, and making sure people have high social mobility.
So, yeah one’s a lot better than the other when you look at the outcomes. This meme basically sums up the dynamic perfectly.
I understand your points even if they are off topic. I wish everyone would be rich and prosperous. I have nothing against the Chinese and the ones I’ve met around me have all been great people. It’s easy to get lost in government dick swinging
Yeah I went somewhat on a rant there, and completely agree. I think it would be great if countries focused on improving themselves first and foremost.
The reason you’re getting downvoted is probably more of a reflex than anything else. We get a lot of concern trolls here who love to sealion and generally be obnoxious and annoying.
Just be sure to actually listen to what we have to say (you don’t need to change you mind though) and respond appropriately and you’ll be fine. If you just talk past us and accuse us of things we don’t actually believe, yeah, you’re going to get downvotes, same as if you tried that on any social media platform.
I kind of just wandered in here from /all and didn’t realize what kind of sub this was before I started commenting, lol. Very interesting to read though
At least you bothered to actually check the sidebar and work out what sub this was before commenting. A lot of these people can’t even be bothered to do that.
I’m on Memmy but it just shows “no description”. I kind of got the vibe here by seeing the icon and the comments. It’s cool though - good to see insights from different viewpoints rather than those from my own usual haunts. That’s the cool part about Lemmy, lots of different groups on here just doing their thing without much blind bigotry.
Huh, very strange. Might be an error.
Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes, so you’ll just get a bit of flak from the much less active lemmygrad (no shade to them)
I’m sitting at -6 on my first comment and -1 on second apparently. It’s fine.
I’m upvoting you! It’s a fair point and a reasonable thing to point out.
I’m sure the lobbyists and congresscritters in DC have a more realist view in private. Doesn’t really change what sort of sentiment they push to the masses.
The difference is the U.S. started it, and for no real legitimate reason, other than profit and domination. When China does it, it’s revenge/retribution/just desserts.
and the biggest thing is the US and its cronies are actively in charge, they’ve made the world this way
I’m not sure there’s any way to claim “who started it” and I really don’t think it matters whether it was China, France, USA or Russia. It was inevitable and will always exist.