Traffic on the single bridge that links Russia to Moscow-annexed Crimea and serves as a key supply route for the Kremlin’s forces in the war with Ukraine came to a standstill on Monday after one of its sections was blown up, killing a couple and wounding their daughter.
The RBC Ukraine news agency reported that explosions were heard on the bridge, with Russian military bloggers reporting two strikes.
RBC Ukraine and another Ukrainian news outlet Ukrainska Pravda said the attack was planned jointly by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian navy, and involved sea drones.
Honey, how about we spice our family vacation up this year and go to a drought stricken stolen land near an active war zone?
San Diego is nice this time of year.
Comic con is starting soon… May want to wait for that to be done.
The war zones are the homeless colonies.
I was thinking Tijuana, but that might work too.
Let’s drive over a military asset during a war! I wish no harm to any civilians but driving over this bridge isn’t like chilling in a cafe in a city. You need to be either stupid or accepting of the risk to drive over this bridge.
At this point, any Russian families remaining in Crimea really should leave for their own safety. They know full well they live on stolen land.
Many of them moved there as active contributors to the genocide in that region.
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True, as does Israel.
Says the Canadian lol
What? Do you have anything that shows the demographics significantly changed at all? The population was 76% russian in 2014 before Russia took it. You have data that shows that significantly increased?
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love you mate. they are fascists. wheres moderation here?
Ehh besides the rude ones most of this is alright. I think only 2 people were particularly rude and they got blocked so meh. Some other conversations here actually got quite interesting @barsoap@lemm.ee seems mostly alright once we get off the topic of the war.
Crimea had been Russian since the late 18th century. It was given to Ukraine, who did not even think of themselves as nation – and were made a republic – until the USSR pushed for it. Then in the 50s, Krushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine. There’s nothing “stolen” about Crimea, it hasn’t been Ukrainian until some 80 years ago and was given as a gesture to a republic in a union that doesn’t exist any more, thus voiding Ukraine’s exclusive claim to the peninsula.
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You mean that Ukrainians who are ethnically and linguistically Russians and who had been residing in Crimea before the formation of the current Ukraine country should have no political righst nor property ownership rights?
Nope! Not what I meant at all. Hope that clears it up for ya.
Crimea is 76% russian. It was almost 70% russian before 2014 and it is around 76% russian today. Almost all of these people lived there already.
Russian speaking != Russian. A majority in Crimea voted for independence from Russia in 1991 and that desire for independence from Russia did not lessen between 1991 and 2014 when Russia’s imperial war of conquest against Ukraine began.
A majority of Russians rose up in opposition against the Ukrainian government during the Ukrainian revolution in support of Russian annexation. You can’t just ignore that a large number of people in Crimea were onboard with annexation.
Certainly can, and will! Nothing justifies another country just annexing that territory. Nothing. No amount of you talking will justify it. No number of people there who speak Russian justify it. There is no justification.
So, you don’t care about the people or how they feel about anything? So when the people in Crimea felt they were being treated unfairly by the Ukrainian government, they should’ve just put up with it instead of standing up for themselves? With that attitude, the US would still be a British territory.
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Then do it democratically through referendums. An illegal war is inexcusable. Claiming land is yours because there are people from your country there is textbook fascist strategy.
Manifest Destiny is calling; are you going to call Amerikans fascists for their living on stolen land?
To offer an example, this was Hitler’s basis for invading and annexing the Sudetenland, part of what was then Czechoslovakia.
And they just magically had Russian military uniforms and heavy equipment…
I’m going to quote this next year when Xi annexes Sakalin.
Russia has been too large for too long, it should have been split into a dozen separate countries centuries ago.
Yeah man, I agree. USA should do so too. Ya know, too big of a country eh? Texas and Florida should separate and California following them as an example. Especially California, I hate California.
It’s funny you say that, because both California and texas each have a larger GDP than russia by themselves.
Of course that was before the catastrophic failure of a war, now I’m sure Russia’s smaller than Florida too.
BTW, it’s pronounced “Knee-how”, just to help you for next year.
Sure. But that doesn’t really change the census data much.
This applies to Donetsk and Luhansk too. All three of these regions were ethnic majority Russian, and the separatism kicked off when the Maidan government banned the Russian language in official government usage (schools, local institutions etc).
So you’re saying that Italy ought to annex New Jersey?
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As others have pointed out, Crimea is not 82% Russian. The majority of the populace speaks Russian, but a shared language does not indicate a shared culture. They don’t want to be part of Russia, and were illegally invaded.
Crimea wasn’t “invaded”. Russia was already there as it leased the port and officially managed it for military use already. That’s why there was no fighting. They already ran the checkpoints, they already were the entire military presence in the region. The changeover from “this is Ukraine” to “this is Russia now” was entirely the signing of papers and changed absolutely nothing about the presence in the region or the average day to day. They certainly took it over, but to say it was invaded is somewhat misleading, more of a “we’ve decided that this is ours now”.
This is a gross and flagrant distortion of events in Crimea leading up to the illegal annexation. It leaves out the fact that the operation of the checkpoints was still subject to Ukrainian governmental oversight, the fact that prior to the take-over, Russia illegally brought soldiers in unmarked uniforms over the border (the “little green men”), and the fact that the “changeover” was far from violence-free, let alone just a “signing of papers.”
The denial of reality going on here is absurd. Pre 2014 I know they operated the checkpoints because I went to Crimea for 2 weeks in 2009. I’m not saying that there wasn’t also fuckery involved but denying the reality of events is nonsensical. There is even a vice documentary that shows just how casual the transition was. It’s extremely painful discussing these topics with people online whose only understanding of these regions comes through the lens of this war.
I never said Russia didn’t operate the checkpoints. But prior to 2014, Crimea was indisputably Ukrainian territory, and Russia operated security checkpoints inside Ukraine at Ukraine’s discretion.
No one is claiming that the annexation of Crimea involved violence at the scale of the current war, but it was not non-violent, either. Characterizing it as just “signing of papers” is false.
It’s extremely painful discussing these topics with people online whose only understanding of these regions comes through the lens of this war.
What other lens should we look at the annexation through? It was clearly the early stages of this war.
I’m not saying it wasn’t Ukrainian territory. I’m saying that the presence there was 100% russian military because it was functionally operated as their military port.
This is precisely why there was no battle over it, no deaths, no nothing. Just “this is russia now” and continued operation of it as they always had but with different flags.
What other lens should we look at the annexation through? It was clearly the early stages of this war.
I’d much prefer a non-war lens of the place and how cool it is. Most people in america hadn’t even heard of it until the annexation, it’s very unfortunate.
I don’t think calling it the early stages of this war is quite accurate but it’s not really that important and kinda gets into unnecessary semantics. The war probably wouldn’t be happening if the Minsk agreement had been kept. Russia were never going to let Crimea go because they needed it as a military port but they avoided Donetsk and Luhansk up until the Minsk agreement failed. If they had taken these regions in 2014 it would have been a breeze for them as Ukraine had no military to speak of, which is why the civil war was fought by the nazi volunteer batallions (azov, right sector, etc etc). Ukraine’s military was ramped up between 2014 and 2021. They did not really have much of anything until the 2016 Stategic Defense Bulletin followed by the State Program for the Development of the Armed Forces (2017-2020). In 2014 the military was only 90k active personnel with over half being civilian staff.
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It is impossible to talk about a genocide without talking about ethnicity. Stop being so pigheaded. I’m going to block you now.
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If it weren’t for Prigozhin and his Wagner mercenaries staging a mutiny against the Russian military, I would have cast serious doubt on Ukraine’s counteroffensive succeeding. Regardless of what you think about the competency of the Russian armed forces, it can’t be denied that Wagner are one of their few effective units in force.
Ukraine has remained boldly united in the face of a long and a bloody war on their own doorstep, whereas we’ve seen deteriorating Russian morale, both within the country’s borders and on the frontlines.
At this rate I think that Zelenskyy will retake Crimea and the Donbas within months.
What is with the Prigozhin/Wagner mutiny anyway? Never heard anything after.
It died when Belarus intervened and brokered a compromise between the Wagner group and Putin. Still unfolding so we still don’t know the full story. Here’s a summary from Business Insider.
My guess is he got paid off to back down. Putin has a lot of money and probably offered him safety in Belarus as well as a huge chunk of change for him and his troops.
It’s not exactly about money, Prigozhin has full control over the mercenary company Konkord, which deals in “authoritarian support” and over the years amassed more money and influence then I can even imagine.
I’ve never heard of a super rich person who didn’t want more money
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Who invaded who again?
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They could also force the Russians to the table when the costs become too high for their forces to maintain. Russia can only lose so many to the meat grinder.
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Ok and this Simplicus is who exactly? What reason should I accept that they have any knowledge or experience that makes their opinion worth anything at all? Im asking because you are using them as a source and I cannot find anything that shows that they are an informed source.
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Remember that degraded morale has a compounding effect as well. If a position hears that four other positions near them have failed, they might decide “well fuck it”, and then the positions behind THEM hear “well now five positions have failed” and they scramble, and so on. Combine that with the fact that Russian morale is already reportedly extremely low (who would’ve thought conscripts make shitty and unhappy soldiers).
Gotcha! I’ll remind you at Monday, August 14, 2023, 9:11:16 PM UTC.
That is not two months from now?
They edited the message, used to be 1 month
Ah thanks. Makes sense. Is there some way to see the edits?
Dont think so, only way I know is cause I was checking around to see if the bot was responding to people properly and saw that comment early before it was edited
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Fuck I blocked one troll and this entire thread literally decreased in size by more than half.
Saw this comment and two minutes after blocking a certain communist cat the whole thread is clear!
Yeah, he also has been a mod here until yesterday for like a day or so and got a couple of posts removed. I tell you, some modlogs are a wild read.
In pictures only one road span seems to be damaged. That would elave the other road with 2 lines and railroad with 2 lines still available. Could this really have an effect on the supply efforts beyond halving the maximum throughput? I don’t imagine the bridge is constantly being used at maximum capacity.
I guess the whole thing could be structurally unsound now without it being visible from these photos.
I guess we’ll just wait and see if Russians actually use it.
It didn’t need to be blown up to be structurally unsound, it was already. The bridge was a well known rush job that was built against the advice of several engineers but Putin’s hubris knows no bounds.
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A child being made orphan is good news to you?
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death of civilians is never good news, but if russia doesn’t want its citizens to be at risk then they shouldnt invade other countries
This is why war is horrible. Ukraine made a brilliant tactical move here in terms of strategy, but civilians still died. Whatever you think of the adults, a child was injured and is now orphaned because of this attack. But it was still necessary, and there will be more situations like this as Ukraine continues its counteroffensive and hopefully fully recaptures their stolen land. Crimea belongs to Ukraine.
Lemmy is way more intelligent, both cognitively and emotionally, than Reddit was. We can recognize the necessity of this attack and cheer Ukraine for making such a huge tactical move, but we can also be remorseful for the civilians who have had their lives changed because of the attack.
This is why war fucking sucks. There are no gentleman or ladies in wars. There is nothing honorable about it. There’s just cold logic for killing your enemy and how you can more easily do that. If you can avoid civilian casualties you will, but if it can’t be avoided, then it is what it is.
Lest someone mistake this as a pro Russian “stop the war!” comment – Putin can stop all of this anytime he wants. He withdraws all forces, the war ends. He fights for conquest, Ukraine fights for survival. As long as Ukrainians want to fight for their country and Putin doesn’t end the war, the war continues. Make no mistake, all of this carnage is his fault.
Any Russian citizen moving into Crimea negates the privilege of being labeled a civilian at this point.
I have to wonder how many are told it is safe or that they aren’t stealing a living family’s stuff
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That’s literally the reasoning putin used to take it…
There are records. Russia and Ukraine are modern-ish states Russian backwardness aside.
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Death of civilians in Crimea wouldn’t happen if Russia didn’t invade.
They’d have still gotten their shit blown up by Kyiv, who has been blowing up everyone who voted in a referendum to become Russian. Fucking christ am I the only one capable of remembering anything more than two fucking years old? Or is this another one of those “conveniently ignored” bits for y’all NAFO rimjobbers?
Don’t worry, I remember what happened before 2014. I didn’t have any sympathy for separatists then and I don’t have now either.
…So for the crime of wanting to separate from an increasingly-fascist government, you want their bridges blown up and their civilians turned into chunky salsa. You’re a fucking ghoul; and part of me wonders how you’d feel about American separatists when that day eventually comes.
how you’d feel about American separatists
If they want to join Canada or Mexico then the same. Independence =/= stealing for another country.
you want their bridges blown up and their civilians turned into chunky salsa
Nobody is forcing Russians to visit Ukrainian territory.
You’re a fucking ghoul, and I pray you wind up having to live through the monstrosity you’d subject others to.
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That’s a bad faith argument if ever there was one. At that point Russia could walk into any country behind human shields and nobody would be allowed to do anything.
There is a giant difference between targeting civilians and a couple civilians getting killed while targeting strategic infrastructure.
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The roadway is used by both. Don’t be more ignorant that you must.
The nation these civilians were attacked in is at war so it is not by any definition a terrorist attack.
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No because unlike your examples, which are false equivalences, the bridge is in a nation actively at war. Those civilians died occupying land.
If I die due to visiting an active war zone is it my fault?
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With this bridge being the only link between Russian occupied Crimea and the Russian mainland, we can look forward to a loooooooot more attacks of this kind.
nafo detected, opinion discarded
Зайдите в первый отдел за повесткой, товарищ
I heard the naval drone attached from inside the Azov Sea which shows Ukraine has done something very unexpected. How did the front get to the north side of the bridge?
if you look at the photos and map, you’ll see that the span dropped was the one in the middle, that is the one carrying traffic from crimea to krasnodar. it’s pretty unusual either way, whether drones got there from south or north
I believe the reasoning is that this is the only bridge into and out of Crimea from the Russian side.
What happened? Good thing happened.
It achieved nothing but the killing of two innocent people and almost killing their daughter. What was good about it?
It damaged a vital transport link. Shame the railway still stands.
Not an answer. There was nothing good about it. It was a stupid waste of time and innocent life.
It directly helps the Soviet War machine. Ukraine needs to take it down fully
The Soviet union hasn’t existed for several decades. Are you a time traveler?
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Ruski? Is that some kind of slang?
Just to be clear, you think the Russians are communists?
Lemmingrad wank moderated community. I’m out.
Edit: it appeara the problem has been rectified lol
- lemmygrad
- it’s lemmy.world
- good riddance
- who gives a fuck
- it’s moderated by a lemmingrad user, might as well be lemmingrad (see removed comment that said “tankies mad”)
- same
You said you’re out my brother :) Btw I don’t see which mod is lemmygrad.ml
Look at the modlog, it’s public.
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Smd tankie
No thanks, I don’t fuck straights, settlers, or liberals anymore. Can’t wait for your country to fall!
Wow so quirky, unique and clever. Tee-hee.
If you block the two “communists”, who are oddly defending Russian fascism, the thread clears right up
For real. These tankies running lemmy are going to kill it in its crib.
