Pepe Escobar : World Reactions to Putin Peace PlanWelcome to our latest episode, where we dive deep into the global reactions to Vladimir Putin's Peace Plan ...
That’s just whataboutism. I never said America is some bastion of peace or that they’re not imperialist murderers.
I said Putin could end the current war he started at any moment.
The invasion is a response to the persecution and ethnic cleansing done by the Banderite neo-nazi regime in Kiev against ethnic Russians in Crimea, the DPR and LPR; Banderite terrorist attacks on Russian civilians and Russian soil; Military build-up and long-range NATO weapons being moved onto Russian borders; and Ukraine being pushed into NATO membership and becoming a US military base against Russia.
Ukraine broke the Minsk accords under US pressure. Just before the war began, the US/UK told Zelenskyy that if Ukraine accepted the Istanbul Agreement (which only required Ukraine NOT join NATO, stop the attacks and deescalate) they would cut off military (and other) funding to Ukraine (most of which was just being stolen and sold on the black market to line the pockets of the kleptocrats). The brokers of the Istanbul agreement have told us that the terms were acceptable and peace was at hand until the US threatened Zelenskyy and the offer was suddenly rejected.
Ukranians are literally dying so Ukraine can join NATO, which will benefit no on in Ukraine at all. That it. That’s why. It’s just another escalation, trapping Ukraine into future proxy war run by the same imperialist ghouls.
So you recognize that, but also think that if Putin retreats the americans will just be ok and everyone goes on with their lifes? Please help me make sense of this
Putin didn’t start the war, NATO did in 2014 when they toppled an elected government and put their Nazi puppets in charge who went on to start a war against their own people.
If by “Putin could end the war” you mean he could surrender, sure. So can Zelensky. Why doesn’t he? Russia has placed a peace offer on the table. Repeatedly in fact. In 2014 and 2015. In 2021 and 2022. And again just a week or so ago. Zelensky and his western handlers could end the war they started at any moment.
Sure, Putin could surrender, just like i could jump off of a balcony, but why would or should he? He’s winning. He has huge popular support. This conflict is viewed in Russia as vital to Russia’s national interests. Nothing has changed about the reasons why Russia made the decision to intervene in 2022. If anything they have only become more convinced of the correctness and the necessity of their decision.
If Putin tried to unilaterally make a decision that would so clearly compromise Russia’s vital interests nearly the entire Russian state apparatus and much of society would view him as a traitor, and rightfully so. He would most likely be ousted and replaced by a hardliner who was more willing to finish the job.
Same reason in fact why Zelensky can’t surrender, by the way, only in his case he won’t just get ousted, the Nazis will probably kill him. Like they did to their own negotiator who was trying to work out a deal with the Russians in Istanbul.
And why is it that you never stop to think about what would happen next if Russia suddenly pulled out of territories that are now constitutionally a part of Russia and where millions of people live who consider themselves Russian and have taken Russian citizenship? Do you know what Ukrainian Nazis do to those people who they see as traitors? Do you know what their plan is for the ethnic Russian population of Donbass which dared to rebel and fight back against the Maidan regime for eight years?
Have you seen what happened last year when Armenia stopped being willing or able to defend Nagorno Karabakh? Why would any leader (at least one who isn’t on the payroll of the West) allow that to happen to their people?
And do you think Nazi Ukraine would stop at 2022 borders? Or do you think they would be emboldened and press further to take Crimea as well and whatever other Russian territory their deranged revisionist “history” tells them ought to be theirs?
Why should Russia roll over and allow itself to be dismantled? Why should they let NATO take over Crimea and zone them out of the Black Sea? You’d have to be monumentally stupid or a traitor to allow that, and any country in the same position would go to whatever lengths necessary to ensure that didn’t happen.
You’re refuting arguments I never made. I never said “surrender.” He could just take his troops back to Russia. He could go back to business as usual. The “peace offerings” are taking Ukrainian land.
His troops are in Russia. The new regions are now a part of Russia and it is Ukraine that is occupying them. Giving them up is surrender. Allowing NATO to take Ukraine is surrender.
I ask you again: what do you think would happen to the people living there if Russia stopped defending them and let them be overrun by Nazis who hate them and consider them subhuman?
The peace offers were the best deal Ukraine was ever going to get. Every time they refuse, the outcome gets worse for them. At some point you have to acknowledge reality.
The “Ukrainian land” you’re referring to has people on it. Largely ethnic Russian people. People which had their government couped by the US and replaced with Banderites. People which are being politically persecuted, called “orcs”, imprisoned, tortured, and subject to terrorist and militarily attacks by Ukranian nazis for the reason of their ethnicity and being suspected of communist sympathies. People who themselves decided not to leave their homes like the Banderites wanted, but assert autonomy and self governance. People who are having their cars, homes, markets and hospitals bombed and shelled by the puppet regime in Kiev. People who have had no one come to their aid but Russia. Western media mostly ignored what has been going on, and since 2022 have throw it down the memory hole.
What happens to those people if Russia stops without regard for their security? Those people (both ethnic Russian and ethnic Ukrainians living there) are considered “traitors” by the nazis in the Kiev regime and will be shot. The genocide will resume. If they fight back it will be more war.
Also consider the end result. The whole purpose of this proxy war was over Ukraine being able to join NATO, which was the only real stipulation of the Istanbul Agreement: No proxy war and no NATO putting long-range weapons on the border. If the Kiev regime “wins”, that means NATO membership which will further militarize and saturate the country (which is already under martial law run by an unelected fascist dictator) with weapons pointed at Russia. It means US-controlled nuclear missile sites in Ukraine with only one target in mind. It means Ukraine become locked into another US-backed proxy war in the very near future that could end all life on earth.
There is no benefit to the Ukrainian people if the US “wins” and NATO takes over, just more escalation and death.
The very best outcome of this is total capitulation and arrest of the current Kiev regime. Total de-nazification. New elections are held. And the US/NATO loses all interest in Ukraine as a strategic asset to use against Russia. But Russia is setting a very low threshold for a negotiated peace here, and it needs to be taken seriously and diplomatically.
You’re welcome to keep downvoting me, but if you really do care about peace (and I believe you do), ask yourself why you believe the US isn’t lying you into this war, when they’ve lied you into every single other war in the last 100 years. Also please watch that video I linked if you haven’t.
That’s just whataboutism. I never said America is some bastion of peace or that they’re not imperialist murderers. I said Putin could end the current war he started at any moment.
The invasion is a response to the persecution and ethnic cleansing done by the Banderite neo-nazi regime in Kiev against ethnic Russians in Crimea, the DPR and LPR; Banderite terrorist attacks on Russian civilians and Russian soil; Military build-up and long-range NATO weapons being moved onto Russian borders; and Ukraine being pushed into NATO membership and becoming a US military base against Russia.
Ukraine broke the Minsk accords under US pressure. Just before the war began, the US/UK told Zelenskyy that if Ukraine accepted the Istanbul Agreement (which only required Ukraine NOT join NATO, stop the attacks and deescalate) they would cut off military (and other) funding to Ukraine (most of which was just being stolen and sold on the black market to line the pockets of the kleptocrats). The brokers of the Istanbul agreement have told us that the terms were acceptable and peace was at hand until the US threatened Zelenskyy and the offer was suddenly rejected.
Ukranians are literally dying so Ukraine can join NATO, which will benefit no on in Ukraine at all. That it. That’s why. It’s just another escalation, trapping Ukraine into future proxy war run by the same imperialist ghouls.
So you recognize that, but also think that if Putin retreats the americans will just be ok and everyone goes on with their lifes? Please help me make sense of this
Putin didn’t start the war, NATO did in 2014 when they toppled an elected government and put their Nazi puppets in charge who went on to start a war against their own people.
If by “Putin could end the war” you mean he could surrender, sure. So can Zelensky. Why doesn’t he? Russia has placed a peace offer on the table. Repeatedly in fact. In 2014 and 2015. In 2021 and 2022. And again just a week or so ago. Zelensky and his western handlers could end the war they started at any moment.
Sure, Putin could surrender, just like i could jump off of a balcony, but why would or should he? He’s winning. He has huge popular support. This conflict is viewed in Russia as vital to Russia’s national interests. Nothing has changed about the reasons why Russia made the decision to intervene in 2022. If anything they have only become more convinced of the correctness and the necessity of their decision.
If Putin tried to unilaterally make a decision that would so clearly compromise Russia’s vital interests nearly the entire Russian state apparatus and much of society would view him as a traitor, and rightfully so. He would most likely be ousted and replaced by a hardliner who was more willing to finish the job.
Same reason in fact why Zelensky can’t surrender, by the way, only in his case he won’t just get ousted, the Nazis will probably kill him. Like they did to their own negotiator who was trying to work out a deal with the Russians in Istanbul.
And why is it that you never stop to think about what would happen next if Russia suddenly pulled out of territories that are now constitutionally a part of Russia and where millions of people live who consider themselves Russian and have taken Russian citizenship? Do you know what Ukrainian Nazis do to those people who they see as traitors? Do you know what their plan is for the ethnic Russian population of Donbass which dared to rebel and fight back against the Maidan regime for eight years?
Have you seen what happened last year when Armenia stopped being willing or able to defend Nagorno Karabakh? Why would any leader (at least one who isn’t on the payroll of the West) allow that to happen to their people?
And do you think Nazi Ukraine would stop at 2022 borders? Or do you think they would be emboldened and press further to take Crimea as well and whatever other Russian territory their deranged revisionist “history” tells them ought to be theirs?
Why should Russia roll over and allow itself to be dismantled? Why should they let NATO take over Crimea and zone them out of the Black Sea? You’d have to be monumentally stupid or a traitor to allow that, and any country in the same position would go to whatever lengths necessary to ensure that didn’t happen.
You’re refuting arguments I never made. I never said “surrender.” He could just take his troops back to Russia. He could go back to business as usual. The “peace offerings” are taking Ukrainian land.
His troops are in Russia. The new regions are now a part of Russia and it is Ukraine that is occupying them. Giving them up is surrender. Allowing NATO to take Ukraine is surrender.
I ask you again: what do you think would happen to the people living there if Russia stopped defending them and let them be overrun by Nazis who hate them and consider them subhuman?
The peace offers were the best deal Ukraine was ever going to get. Every time they refuse, the outcome gets worse for them. At some point you have to acknowledge reality.
The “Ukrainian land” you’re referring to has people on it. Largely ethnic Russian people. People which had their government couped by the US and replaced with Banderites. People which are being politically persecuted, called “orcs”, imprisoned, tortured, and subject to terrorist and militarily attacks by Ukranian nazis for the reason of their ethnicity and being suspected of communist sympathies. People who themselves decided not to leave their homes like the Banderites wanted, but assert autonomy and self governance. People who are having their cars, homes, markets and hospitals bombed and shelled by the puppet regime in Kiev. People who have had no one come to their aid but Russia. Western media mostly ignored what has been going on, and since 2022 have throw it down the memory hole.
What happens to those people if Russia stops without regard for their security? Those people (both ethnic Russian and ethnic Ukrainians living there) are considered “traitors” by the nazis in the Kiev regime and will be shot. The genocide will resume. If they fight back it will be more war.
Also consider the end result. The whole purpose of this proxy war was over Ukraine being able to join NATO, which was the only real stipulation of the Istanbul Agreement: No proxy war and no NATO putting long-range weapons on the border. If the Kiev regime “wins”, that means NATO membership which will further militarize and saturate the country (which is already under martial law run by an unelected fascist dictator) with weapons pointed at Russia. It means US-controlled nuclear missile sites in Ukraine with only one target in mind. It means Ukraine become locked into another US-backed proxy war in the very near future that could end all life on earth.
There is no benefit to the Ukrainian people if the US “wins” and NATO takes over, just more escalation and death.
The very best outcome of this is total capitulation and arrest of the current Kiev regime. Total de-nazification. New elections are held. And the US/NATO loses all interest in Ukraine as a strategic asset to use against Russia. But Russia is setting a very low threshold for a negotiated peace here, and it needs to be taken seriously and diplomatically.
You’re welcome to keep downvoting me, but if you really do care about peace (and I believe you do), ask yourself why you believe the US isn’t lying you into this war, when they’ve lied you into every single other war in the last 100 years. Also please watch that video I linked if you haven’t.