• ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    One of my favorite examples of the difficulty in idiot-proofing things comes from a national park ranger talking about the difficulty of designing a bear-proof garbage can. He said “There is considerable overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans.”

    • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      Lmao, yeah… You can make a can so secured a bear definitely won’t get in; but will people go to the effort to use it then?

      Definitely some overlap there.

      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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        7 months ago

        And I think that hits on the truth, which makes this less “iamverysmart”. It’s not that the tourists are dumb, it’s that they’re new and not willing to pay much attention to things like trash can design. 1% of a normal person’s attention presents a lot like a really dumb person.

        • ikidd@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Is it 1%? Maybe when they first try to open it they’re distracted But when doesn’t open and now they’re concentrating on the problem and still fail, then we have to kinda own up to the fact that a lot of people aren’t smarter than a bear.

          • Urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            7 months ago

            I can’t believe this comment chain is this long and no one has pointed out that drunk and stoned humans are terrible at figuring stuff like this out.

            You’re not planning for the dumbest human trying in earnest. You’re planning for humans who are tired, distracted and/or chemically altered. A 80 IQ person can figure out a weird trash can eventually if they are trying.

            These comments (not just yours) feel misanthropic. I haven’t been to a campsite in ages so I don’t know what sort of trash can puzzlebox we’re talking about, but I work somewhere with alcohol so I can guess what the true issue is.

          • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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            7 months ago

            I think if they can score 100 on an IQ test, they can figure out any reasonable trash can eventually, assuming the moving parts are visible. Many people would rather just litter.

              • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                7 months ago

                Yup. The ranger did say “stupidest”, I guess, but I feel like at 70 or something you still know to pull on stuff in a few set ways until it moves.

                  • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                    7 months ago

                    That makes me wonder what designs they were considering. The ones I’ve seen use a sort of pinch motion under metal hood. Maybe the idea there is to require dexterous forelimbs, rather than any intellectual ability.

              • Rusty Shackleford@programming.dev
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                7 months ago

                100 is the average, implying half the population is lower than that

                At the risk of pedantry, if 100 is the average (the mean), we’re saying “most people are at 100”. If it were the median, then we’re implying “100 is the middle score of those sampled”. A subtle, but important difference.

            • affiliate@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              i’m not really sure what IQ has to do with this. it was originally designed to measure people’s proficiency in school. it was not designed to be a general measure of intelligence. that was something that was co opted by eugenicists.

              here’s a quote from Simon Bidet, the original creator of the IQ test, about his thoughts on the eugenicists using his test:

              Finally, when Binet did become aware of the “foreign ideas being grafted on his instrument” he condemned those who with ‘brutal pessimism’ and ‘deplorable verdicts’ were promoting the concept of intelligence as a single, unitary construct.

              you can read more about this stuff on his wikipedia page. (the quote is from wikipedia)

              even to this day, there is quite a bit of doubt as to how accurately IQ measures “general intelligence”

              • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                7 months ago

                I know. It’s a shorthand quantitative measure everyone’s familiar with, though, so it’s useful for communicating. Thanks for adding a disclaimer for me.

            • ikidd@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Yah, that’s possible too. But I can’t say I’d figure anyone that litters is much smarter than a bear either.

    • Fermion@feddit.nl
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      7 months ago

      A bear has time and motivation to keep trying over and over again to get into the garbage. People are generally much less determined to figure it out.

      • Carnelian@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I used to see people charitably, much like you do, until very recently. After witnessing for myself people staring into the sun and injuring themselves after being repeatedly warned, I now realize there are a substantial number of people who simply have rocks clattering around inside their skulls instead of brains

        • ggppjj@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I genuinely had someone stop and ask me why you can’t see the moon during an eclipse because “it’s got light in it right”.

          They’re soon to replace our HR manager.

          • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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            7 months ago

            Answer: Light travels in straight lines (well, for this purpose) and the moon is roughly an opaque sphere. Maybe you could see it with earthshine, but I get the impression the corona is still much brighter.

            I’ve heard dumber.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            7 months ago

            There was a listener question on a science podcast recently that asked about how the temperature changed on the moon during the recent solar eclipse.

            They almost got what a solar eclipse was, but not quite. During a solar eclipse, the moon gets between the sun and the earth, blocking the light getting to the earth and casting a shadow on the earth. The side of the moon facing the earth is completely dark because the thing that normally lights it up (the sun) is completely behind it. But, the back side of the moon is getting full sun and just as hot as normal.

            I think part of the problem with understanding all this is that the sun is just so insanely bright. Like, it’s a bit hard to believe that the full moon is so bright just because it’s reflecting sunlight. It’s also amazing that the “wandering stars” (planets) look like stars when they’re just blobs of rocks or gases that are reflecting the insanely bright light of the sun.

            It’s amazing if you think about it. Light comes out of the sun in every possible direction. A tiny fraction of it hits the surface of Mercury, and only some of that light is reflected back out. The light reflected from Mercury goes in almost every direction. A tiny fraction of it hits the earth. But, even with that indirect bounce, it’s bright enough to see with the naked eye.

        • ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          Holy shit this. And not even “educated” people. Where I work is about half degree holding engineers… many of these engineers were seen outside staring at the partial eclipse Monday.

          • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            Sounds like your typical engineer. I passed fluid dynamics, I deserve to look at the big ball of plasma.

            My eyes haven’t hurt this bad since studying for differential equations theory… Have I told you I’m an engineer?

        • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          There was a solar eclipse when I was in grade six. One of my classmates was riding his bike home, and was stupidly looking at the eclipse, and got hit by a car. The irony.

            • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              It was pretty bad. He missed a lot of school. I think he ended up repeating grade six. I never saw him much after that, but I did hear that he got married to another person I went to school with eventually, so presumably his life wasn’t ruined or anything.

        • Lath@kbin.earth
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          7 months ago

          What do you mean? Sun is blocked = no sun rays = not blinded when staring directly. The logic is sound! Just like in programming.

          • Xavienth
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            7 months ago

            I mean, that is true when 100% blocked (totality)

          • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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            7 months ago

            This reminds me of that poster in my highschool chem lab:

            Same with shooting without eye/ear pro. I dunno about other folks but I use my eyes and ears a lot, and I’d hate to miss out on music and color the rest of my life because I thought I would have a transcendent experience blowing them out for a minute. 😬

          • Carnelian@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Being able to see properly is also something they’ll never be able to do again, so, I hope that one second was “spiritual” enough for them lol

              • rtxn@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Being able to see properly

                immediately go blind

                You’re immediately taking the argument to the extreme. You won’t immediately go blind, but it will damage your retina in ways you sometimes don’t notice because the brain compensates for it. It happened to my uncle when he was a welder, he had a second blind spot where he couldn’t see sharply, but it didn’t really affect his quality of life.

          • Apathy Tree@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            7 months ago

            Eclipses happen every year like clockwork (it basically is clockwork, but on a huge scale). Eclipse seasons are spring and fall, around the equinoxes. You could very easily fly to see a total eclipse every few years if you want to, because we know when they are going to happen and where will have totality - it’s very routine stuff. There’s literally nothing special at all about the one that just happened, except that a lot of people haven’t seen one before because it hasn’t happened -at that location- in a time.

            So no, absolutely not something you’ll never get a chance to see again, tho you won’t be able if you go blind like a fucking moron.

          • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            There’s a pretty big difference between temporary pain and permanent damage though.

            Unless you royally fuck up walking on coals you get some pain, fuck up a little and you just get some blisters.

          • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            If I had someone run through hot coals I would scold them, sure. Much like for being angry about others not believing in zombie carpenters or letting quacks give their kids overpriced sugar pills. But that’s jot the context right now, is it?

          • Xavienth
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            7 months ago

            The partial eclipse is nothing special. Any given location gets one every few years or so.

            Totality is the really neat and special thing, and it isn’t damaging to your eyes. (assuming you don’t pre-empt or overshoot the timing)

      • DdCno1@kbin.social
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        7 months ago

        I’ve seen people carelessly throw away their garbage right next to garbage bins, because they couldn’t be bothered to get a little closer or aim.

        The bear has more determination, because it has an incentive to get to the tasty, high calorie food that doesn’t require the energy expenditure of chasing it down and tearing it apart. Throwing away garbage into a designated container on the other hand is a chore that some people believe they can skip, because they are the sole protagonists in their own stupid little world.