For context, I’m a USian who became interested in Islamic cultures as a young adult, and from there found something magnetic about the faith of Islam.
I have many LGBT friends, and whenever I’ve reached out to mosques, the answers I get are rather disappointing. The best one I’ve gotten still invalidates homosexual relationships. I’m cishet, but as I said I have many LGBT friends, and I’m also poly. I have a comrade who is trans and converted to Islam, and I see that many LGBT Muslims exist, but this confounds me, too. Even the most open-minded of them will say something is “what Muslims believe” and then clarifies that it is from a Hadith, not strictly from the Quran. The comrade I know is a “Quranic” Muslim - one who follows the Five Pillars and the teachings of the Quran itself, and I know the Hadith are controversial outside of the majority of Sunni Islam.
I want to be a more spiritual person, but the type of Islam I encounter promotes teachings I know in my heart to be wrong. I know, too, that many Christians, Muslims, and Jews have this odd personal combat with God, for lack of a better term - a struggle with the divine, wherein they work out various personal sins/failings or disagreements with the scripture. I know Jews that eat pork, Muslims who drink, Christians who don’t pray. I sense there’s a spirit to the faiths that is more important than adherence to prescriptions of the text.
I am white (part Native American, but this isn’t visible in my appearance or culture). No part of my lineage comes from any land associated with Islam. It feels like appropriation for me to want to convert to a faith, but then pick and choose which parts of it I want to believe and follow. I dabble in tarot and the occult. I’m poly. I believe all consensual love is valid and sacred. So, I guess my question is aimed more towards the Muslim comrades here who are LGBT or allies, who balance the secular with the spiritual, who might be able to show me the way:
How can I call myself a Muslim without compromising my beliefs? Is there a sect or denomination I can seek guidance from? Am I just wasting my - and your - time?
You must log in or register to comment.
I’m an atheist, so my advice might be biased.
I don’t think you should convert for the sake of having a religion. In my opinion, if what interests you is the philosophy, then try to practice it on your own. At least the parts you like. If you aren’t interested in the rituals, then there is no reason to officially convert.
As you’ve observed, organized religions are millenia old, and as such, they carry a lot of cultural archaic baggage that they can’t get rid of, because it would invalidate their dogma. You don’t have to abide by those traditions if they don’t represent you.
If you want the community that accompanies religious practice, I’d suggest looking up for a Unity Church near you. Although it’s based on Christianity, it’s a place of worship for people like you, who want a religion but are not attracted to the whole of it. They encourage you a lot to talk about your own version of what you worship and why. I tried it a few times in the UK and it was fun talking to Muslims, Budhists, Christians and Wiccans amicably in the same room.
I do like the rituals. It’s just certain elements I disagree with that I see other Muslims disagree with. I am attracted to the religion, not merely their philosophy. Perhaps I could see if there are any Muslims at a Unity church and see their takes on the topic. It’s largely the community and main body of beliefs and values, the practices and rituals, that Islam has that appeals to me. I’ve felt most comfortable in mosques, the most spiritual there.
Thank you for the advice.
May your spiritual journey bear fruits you enjoy comrade
I’ll try answering your questions from my point of view, being raised muslim, however atheistic in practice. This is thus a non-expert view and my only formal Islamic classes would have been in school, which was very barebones and westernised, and also weekend saturday schools. I have also lived a majority of my life in Islamic countries but also a minority in the West.
I have limited knowledge regarding Da’wah so any more knowledgeable comrades can correct me where I am wrong.
I’ll start with your first question because I think it is the most important out of all of them.
How can I call myself a Muslim without compromising my beliefs?
I think this is a wrong approach to Islam.
In Islam, belief and faith, is encapsulated in the word iman.
An important aspect of iman is that it goes beyond superficial acceptance. It is not enough to say the shahada and be done with it. You gotta live and breathe it.
And judging from your post you already encapsulate an important part of Iman, which is seeking knowledge. This is why if you read any introduction to Islamic philosophy, their first and foremost topic would be on knowledge production and reproduction. Because the way to showcase your faith is through learning and teaching - through practice.
My point is, whatever you allegedly think Islam is against - firstly, as mentioned by @Aru it’s not about your current perceived faults or unorthodoxy that requires you to compromise. One idea that separates Islam and Christianity is that, in Islam you are born pure but corrupted by material reality. Unless you extricate yourself from reality, everyday you will be making mistakes and faults which requires you to constantly reaffirm your iman. This important emphasis on action, on doing stuff in reality, rather than just in mental masturbation, makes Islam a versatile and realist religion.
Secondly, Islam continues to change and be reformed. As of now, it’s true that a majority of muslims may not approve of those exhibiting same-sex attraction or identifying as different from your assigned gender or outside the binary. But disapproval doesn’t mean excommunication, doesn’t mean dehumanization. There is a clear understanding that separates the private from the public. And there are those that view LGBT identities as perfectly compatible with Islam - that depends on the individual and eventually the community to figure out.
Is there a sect or denomination I can seek guidance from? Am I just wasting my - and your - time?
Your primary guidance will be the Quran. Your secondary guidance will ideally be any imam from a local Masjid.
As for the sects and denominations - they don’t really matter. And what I mean by that is that the basics are the same across denominations. You shouldn’t really concern yourself with it right now unless you are specifically interested because it becomes a really specialised affair. There’s a reason why there are scholars that specialise specifically in matters of fiqh, or jurisprudence.
Also Sufism is not a separate “sect” of Islam, it forms an essential part of the Islamic experience and Islamic history for ALL muslims. Certain muslims, especially those that follow orthodox Sunni jurists, often sideline Sufi thought which were then re-propagated by Orientalist scholars. It is important to recognise this lest we fall back in the colonialist trap.
It feels like appropriation for me to want to convert to a faith, but then pick and choose which parts of it I want to believe and follow. I dabble in tarot and the occult. I’m poly. I believe all consensual love is valid and sacred.
It may shock you to find out that muslims also practice black magic and the like. There have of course been a process “standardization” of such practices, and they are less common now as they are being dissuaded by mainstream Islamic councils.
But it’s definitely not appropriation. What we need now especially with the rising tide of Islamaphobia is those with humility, introspection and courage to understand Islam. In the end, you may decide to not get into it - and that’s fine, but the journey is as valuable as the destination.
I think this blog post, Interrogating The Border Between Rationality And Faith, will be helpful for you.
If you want to know more about my personal experience and thoughts, feel free to DM me or message me on Matrix.
This was a very, very helpful and reassuring response. I might take you up on the DM offer, but I want to parse through the resources you and others have shared first.
I don’t mean to dissuade you from this path you’re taking but as a native person speaking to another native person, have you considered looking into your tribe(s) stories or attending ceremonies or powwows? I personally found comfort in connecting with my people’s stories and meeting other two-spirit homies.
There’s a possibility you’re diaspora so I’ll also add: have you tried reading the stories originating from the land you’re on, and finding a relationship with the land that satisfies your spirit?
I have considered these things, but I’ve never felt very connected with any of it. I keep meaning to go to the powwow, but my family hasn’t had a positive experience there and I feel so disconnected at this point. Tbh, I’ve felt more in touch with my European heritages. My partner is also pretty into Celtic culture and I’ve considered exploring that neopagan route. Idk, Islam always has this powerful draw to me sometimes. I suppose I’ll just keep on looking for answers until it all fits. Life’s a journey and all that…
I hope you find what makes you happy, I know the feeling too. Sometimes I feel more native and sometimes I feel more Irish pagan like flipping back and forth. I was really into Sikhism at a point too, I think a lot of what the Guru Granth Sahib says aligns well with Marxism. I have faith that you will find what works for you cousin and comrade.
Thank you, comrade.
Why do you want to be spiritual? This isn’t bad faith, I was raised without religion and just don’t get it, outside of the fear of death (Nikolai Fyodorov’s Common Task solves that for me and afaik many Soviet leaders as well).
Also the lady who wrote the newer Ms Marvel comic converted to Islam as a young adult, look up interviews with her. I definitely remember her talking about her reasoning in detail
E: also read her run of Ms. Marvel, it depicts muslims just getting to be people nicely. Oh and it’s really good
I’m not sure how to answer that question. I used to be pretty atheistic myself. I’m also very skeptical by nature, and I don’t believe any divine being would be so callous as to condemn nonbelievers to an eternity of suffering. It’s not a fear of death. I just crave… something I can’t explain. Something that I’m not getting from anywhere else. To me, spirituality is just… natural. I believe plenty of atheists are spiritual, too, just in a really materialist fashion. Reverence for nature, love of life, appreciation for the universe… My ideas on the nature of the divine probably don’t fit into Islam as neatly as they should, but I’ve often gotten along better with Muslims than any other religious demographic here in the US. Maybe all I really want is the experience and knowledge that comes from partaking in the community. Maybe it’s just part of my journey. All I know for sure is I keep drifting back to Islam specifically, and it feels weightier and more meaningful than any other spiritual path I’ve explored.
I’m not reading you in bad faith, and I’ll look into the Ms. Marvel thing, but I’m a little surprised by the responses I’m getting. I feel like I’m having to justify being interested in Islam on a community page called Islamic Leftism. I sort of thought there’d be more Muslim comrades interested in answering my questions about the faith and less atheists asking me why I’m spiritual at all, lol.
Why do you want to convert, and why Islam? I personally think you can also personally practice the teachings of a religion without having to officially label yourself as a follower.
I say “convert”, but I really don’t have anything to convert from. I crave a spiritual community, I suppose, and Islam - from what I know of it - best aligns with my personal beliefs and preferences. But it doesn’t perfectly align, and that’s where my dilemma lies. Rationally I could just practice in private as I please, but I’m an odd soul who craves something more traditional, I guess. Heritage, community… I’m not sure how to explain it other than it appeals to me.
Heritage, community… I’m not sure how to explain it other than it appeals to me.
That’s an essential part of Islam. The ummah as it is called.
Which is also why Islam is deeply supported by the masses. Because it is embedded in the community.
Islam is something you can’t practice in private, well up to a certain extent, there are exceptions to this, but that’s why in my primary comment, your first avenue to understanding Islam should be a local masjid and their imam.
This is also reassuring. Validating, even. Thank you.
It sounds to me like you may need to find a branch of Islam that suits you better than the mainstream theological schools. Have you looked into Sufism? From what i know they tend to be more open minded about certain issues. The downside i assume is that it would be harder to find a community which practices it in your area, if having that community is important to you.
I have looked into them, and they appeal to me, but it is as you say. We only have the one mosque nearby. Perhaps I should just focus within that community for now and make connections. There may be Sufis in the community, or people who know more.
@Al_Sham@hexbear.net can you help in this
Removed
About the LGBT friends, if they’re not Muslims they don’t follow the teachings of Islam, shouldn’t matter if they’re queer or not, and it wouldn’t matter if they drank alcohol or not, there’s also this part of quran [60:7] [60:8] [60:9].
As for mosques and Muslim issue with LGBT rights, you have to remember that a majority of Muslims were or are still victims of colonialism, and there was a wave of saudi american backed wahhabis teachings and madrassas, and that Muslims historically were less harsh on queer people than europeans, for example the ottomans legalized it way before most western countries. There won’t be any well known sheikhs saying good things about queer people or doing an analysis more than “ew he put the wee wee in the poo poo” type of stuff, there’s also the whole pink imperialism thing which discourages even talking about it. My phone will crash if I try to search this right now but I sure a lot of global south countries that aren’t Muslim have issues with queer people (correct me if I’m wrong but also the DPRK isn’t too good about it because they value the family or somethin?I don’t remembe).
Finally, Islam doesn’t expect you to be perfect, you’re a human with flaws and are expected to make mistakes, even the prophet himself made mistakes, that’s why there’s forgiveness.
Not saying you should or shouldn’t convert, just answering with what I know
Thank you. You are right that the DPRK isn’t very LGBT friendly for those reasons. The passage and your reply helped a lot.
It might be that you resonate with Islam on an aesthetic level: the art, song, architecture etc, which I think is just as valid as any other reason. Just thought I’d mention it. I think art can be a free and non-rational approach to spirit. I love tarot as well BTW :)
Sometimes I worry it’s just the aesthetic 😔
