- cross-posted to:
- evs@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- evs@lemmy.world
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So reasons include: politics (Lots of swing voters work in the auto manufacturing industry that would get pissed with an influx of chinese cars), national security (worries of the type of information Chinese cars would send back home), and lastly industry protectionism.
As much as this sucks, I kind of agree. We really don’t want to rely on China until they prove to reliably not want to screw us. If this was Taiwan, Mexico, any country from the EU, etc. I would definitely want their cheap EVs to hit our market and bloody up the american manufacturers.
To add to the national security angle: the auto industry is one of the industries that would be able to pivot to wartime production the fastest (as seen in the world wars). Probably not the first thing on everyone’s mind, but I’d bet it’s at least part of the consideration.
Killing the planet so you can be ready for war.
God bless America.
What? Burning bunker oil to ship Chinese made cars across the ocean is better for the planet than manufacturing them domestically?
Oh I must have missed the press release where he announced much higher tariffs for all cars, including ICE ones, manufactured on the other side of the Pacific.
Not to mention that China is pretty big into the “prepare for war” game too.
Not sure why you were downvoted, however you feel about it the fact that China is currently undergoing one of the largest peacetime military buildups in history is undeniable
Yes actually, if you understood economies of scale there’s a lot of reasons why planting your own garden in your backyard is worse than having industrial farms. Similarly, one country being able to control all the pollution would be far better than spreading it out and having little to no locust of control.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23132579/eat-local-csa-farmers-markets-locavore-slow-food
For some articles about farming. Now obviously, there are situations where you can make local manufacturing better, but that comes at a high cost.
Either way, the point is, your initial assumption is wrong and I hope you learned something.
We aren’t talking about small scale manufacturing vs large scale. It’s large scale either way. Your analogy doesn’t work.
Sadly for the US is it small scale manufacturing. Which is kind of the problem. There’s been so much reduction in US manufacturing capability that they are essentially small scale. Other people have already pointed that out. What I will extend though is technically this is what the US is concerned about. The whole point that the US government is trying to make is that it’s a national security issue that the US only produces at such small scale. So not only is what the US saying is that they want to destroy the environment and spend billions to start to maybe create large scale manufacturing again. Is it worth it? I dunno, but that’s what’s being proposed. Kill the environment, stick with ICE vehicles so USA can still compete in large scale manufacturing. Thus, Biden is a hypocrite.
Did you read the article?
To add a bit more to the national security angle: with the potential to escalate into open warfare with China, due to tensions between Taiwan and China, we really don’t want millions of drivable computers sending harvested metadata about our road systems and behavior patterns directly to enemy leadership.
At this point, I’d say the consumer drone industry can switch over the fastest.
i like how the US imposed the free market onto everyone else, bit now they are closing theirs for protectionism
Almost like the US are acting in their own interests.
of course, what bothers me is the hipocrisy of making everyone else adopt that shitty freemarket-at-all-costs model when they themselves arent.
Well china is completely anti free market.so I’m actually surprised more countries aren’t charging more tarrifs on them. Also, I don’t think most major countries are completely protectionist free.
china is being sanctioned to hell because of that, war with them is being discussed by republicans over this.
any country that is does, and most cant survive it.
china is the exception because they are big enough to survive it.
Ah yes, any country from the EU. Like the made in Balkan vehicles with those adidas stripes 👌
The stripes add 10 horsepower.
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Prove me wrong that this has nothing to do with the fact that China became the world’s biggest auto exporter last year and this is a desperate way for the US to try to protect their own auto industry.
Free market, my bottom.
Well, it’s more than that. China is actively trying to dump on the market. Selling things at a loss so they can kill and steal market share.
Sorta what Amazon did early on but on a global scale.
You do realise that you have described just now what all startups are doing in the US. Like look at WhatsApp, Facebook, etc. they were working for years if not decades on a massive loss in an attempt to more or less monopolize the segment, backed by the deep pockets of their investors.
And I think it is only fair if you demand the same level of scrutiny to all companies involved in such practices.
American companies can’t dump. This is specifically for countries to protect their own industries.
US companies can operate at a loss to gain market share, but the money losses is still in its own economy and not an outside foreign country that might not aligned with our countries values.
Plus a company can only lose money for so long that eventually the market starts correcting itself and investors pull funding. Can’t be said about China which is basically unlimited money.
The repercussions is drastic. China has already done this with solar panels. We are already beholden to them for this. If we were dependant on solar panels and not fossil fuel, they would literally be controlling our energy needs.
And the US has done this with so many industries, which you are trying to monopolize or control.
And apparently you are okay when your own country is doing this but not okay when other countries are doing it.
Does this seem fair to you, because sure as hell doesn’t seem to me.
It’s not about fair. Anti dumping tariffs is designed to protect national security and national industries. We are not exclusive to this. China themselves does the same exact thing.
Can you then explain to me what is the difference between
US companies can operate at a loss to gain market share
And dumping as in my books both are synonyms.
And mind you we already have a couple of multi trillion companies now, if this isn’t access to infinite resources what is…
Just Amazon? lol
Just an example.
This would be valid if… China was dumping. They’re not. They’re selling far above unit costs. In fact, their export models are often double or triple the price of domestic models of the same car.
I brought receipts.
https://www.ft.com/content/55ec498d-0959-41ef-8ab9-af06cc45f8e7
Just because YOU don’t believe in facts doesn’t make it less true.
Your first link is an announcement of an investigation into accusations based on assumptions and your second was behind a paywall and the most recent archive.org snapshot didn’t work.
Those aren’t really “receipts”.
Interesting receipts you provide… Receipts with zero evidence actually provided.
OP is correct. The fact is that Chinese cars sold for export are substantially more expensive than those sold for domestic consumption. Unless your argument is that they’re… Dumping domestically?
Better tell all the investors, then.
FREE* MARKET!
*=within the US
Lol no, that hasnt been true for a long time.
- = within the US**
** = if you’re born into money
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It’s obviously protectionist who said otherwise? Let China sell their cars to friendly nations, oh wait…
I made it too late to this thread and now all the top comments are corporate shill posts for the big 3 American OEMs who already outsourced the hell out of their production lines meaning none of their points about protection or votes has been valid for at least 15 years.
Even if Mexico magically invented their own cheap EV, you better bet the USA will have that blocked or at the very least smacked with a huge tariff for no reason beyond protecting some megacorp profits.
They already lobbied for all these stupid rules against JDM back when Japan proved it could make superior cars for cheap. Then, it took them decades to enter the US market locally by building factories and whatnot.
Biden is blocking because China bad and muh lobbyist profits, not because there’s an actual issue of safety or security.
Same with Huawei, they blocked their phones and telecommunication equipment and never managed to show any proof that the Chinese government is actually snooping on their equipment.
And it is not like the US doesn’t have a proven track record of pushing American suppliers to put backdoors and pretty much doing exactly what they accused Huawei and indirectly China of doing.
Every accusation a confession.
They accuse China of doing it because it’s what they are or would do.
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I think the new Chinese made Volvo is one of the more interesting cars coming out this year. It’s $35k… AFTER the 27.5% tariff on Chinese made cars. Meaning, Volvo is actually selling this for $27k. The car is super minimal inside, but manufacturing in China is clearly allowing them to reduce costs a shit load.
US auto manufacturing would be so screwed if these things could be sold without the tariff.
Edit: also worth noting, they’re going to be leasing these direct in many states. No dealer markup.
because US can’t compete with China
Because China bad, obviously
If people want something they should be able to have it. If they are good enough for the EU they are good enough for the US.
The EU also protects its manufacturers by taxing Chinese cars, but the tariffs isn’t nearly as punishing as America’s.
I’d love for the US to start by cutting the tariff to something more reasonable.
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I mean we see their cheap shitty batteries catching on fire in bikes, hoverboards, phones, laptops… Can you imagine their cars going up in flames?
Yeah, that’s and that’s “reputable company” … Just wait until it’s RECOMBAXCKS or whatever hey will sell on amazing n.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Tesla car in Texas catches on fire overnight
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Let me picture it… weird, it looks like a Tesla.
BYD is excellent at making batteries, we have their cars n Australia and they’re pretty popular, i think even beating Tesla now, We have more stringent safety protocols than in USA too. So this isn’t the reason.
America numba one!
In oil production
literally this https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=709&t=6
Not surprised, considering the equivalent tariffs on the import of solar modules under Biden, Trump and Obama.
Racism and chauvinism with corruption and cronyism mixed in
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Commence downvotes butthurt tankies.
I’m honestly confused about who the tankies are supposed to be at this point. Downvotes for what?
It costs more to own because it loses value more quickly… You mean, like all EVs? Or were you talking about the car losing half of its value the minute it drives off the lot?
Almost like that’s part of how he won over the UAW and that Chinese EVs are a threat to US industry and our own migration on the industrial side from petrochemical to electric based manufacturing and infrastructure. I’m not saying that i agree with everything Biden has done in this space, but this is much more complex than Biden saying “I like the environment but hate China” and this article seems to oversimplify a bit.
Also it’s not like Chinese vehicles are banned, the Volvo EX30 is starting sales soon at 35000$, which is extremely cost competitive with current options in the US market despite being affected by the tariffs and not benefiting from US subsidies.
Here’s an article I read yesterday arguing the opposite side and pushing for even more stringent bans on Chinese EVs https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/opinion/gm-ford-electric-vehicles.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
And it’s just one of many BYD electric cars on offer, from the compact e2/e3 hatchback and sedan (think a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla) to the full-size, luxe Han EV, a more expensive option nonetheless selling for under $33,000 in China (it costs more than double that in Europe).
“There’s almost an across-the-board apprehension about Chinese EVs, even though they would make an important contribution to [lower] CO2 emissions,” Gary Clyde Hufbauer, a veteran trade expert at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, says.
They took the “opposite of the Tesla approach”: starting not with luxury vehicles but ultra-cheap cars fit for taxi fleets and not much else, and constantly improving their early inexpensive prototypes.
Bloomberg reported earlier this month that the Biden administration is formulating rules that would limit US sales of Chinese-made parts, even if they’re in vehicles ultimately assembled in the US or Mexico.
As Frank Foer detailed in his book The Last Politician, this faction was brought into the Biden coalition partly through his now-National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan.
During the Trump years, Sullivan forged an alliance with the trade-skeptics and “broke bread with Elizabeth Warren disciples, labor union officials, and intellectuals from left-leaning think tanks.” Sullivan is also, notably, a major China hawk — Foer describes him as agreeing with Donald Trump that China is “eating our lunch” — leading to a hostility to trade with the country that meshed easily with that of trade skeptics who have for decades opposed exposing US manufacturing workers to foreign competition.
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