• Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    Isn’t it weird that I can’t find any western media outlets reporting this? Super weird right, I just can’t figure out why.

  • Salph@infosec.pub
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    5 months ago

    cannot be equated with terrorism

    The only terrorists here are the “israeli” militants.

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      5 months ago

      love how that guy who climbed the fence and got shot by his own guys on the walk back wasn’t considered a terrorist by the media despite 1) being a lone wolf and 2) not operating as part of an authorised military action. I suppose that latter point is because all Israeli’s take part in an authorised military action as an occupying force every second of every day.

      • Salph@infosec.pub
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        5 months ago

        Cuz words like that are usually used for countries, while “israel” is just a western colony in Palestine.

        • Log1cal_Outcome@feddit.uk
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          5 months ago

          I mean, Jewish people originally heralded from around the eastern Mediterranean, middle east? That would make them historically middle eastern rather than western. Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            Let’s set aside the multiple issues with “I think one of my distant ancestors lived here 2000 years ago, or maybe just other members of my religious group, therefore I have a right to live here today” and assume that yes, that sort of historical/ancestral claim gives comtemporary Jewish people a right to live in Palestine. Even in the most generous light imaginable, it would not give them a right to build an ethnostate by committing genocide on the current inhabitants. Israel is so far past anything that could be reasonably granted from ancient Jews living in Palestine that there is no possible defense along those lines.

            Or are we strictly talking about western powers giving the Jewish people a ‘homeland’ after the second world war and the holocaust?

            Yes, that’s what people mean when they refer to Israel as a colony of Europe/the U.S.

              • SoyViking [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                5 months ago

                Did apartheid South Africa have a right to defend itself? Did Rhodesia? Did French Algeria?

                No. Regimes like these have one right: The right to be thrown in the dustbin of history and to be replaced by a more just order.

              • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                5 months ago

                Israel is making it’s own decisions and will happily shrug off any criticism from the Western powers

                There has been zero sincere criticism from the West. If you circumvent Congress to give Israel more money and openly state you are unconditionally supporting it, I don’t buy it if you leak a story about being furious with them behind closed doors. You shouldn’t, either.

            • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de
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              The giant gaping hole in calling Israel a “western colony” is that it has no homeland. It’s not a British colony, or a French colony, or a colony of any other country. If Israel as a country stops existing, the vast majority of its citizens don’t have citizenship in any other country and have literally nowhere else to go. Therefore it’s not a colony and it’s not colonialism, it’s an independent country.

              • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                5 months ago

                When the British expelled criminals to Australia they couldn’t return home. Was Australia not a colony? A ton of European immigrants to the American colonies intended their journeys to be one-way trips, and were functionally barred from returning by cost. Does that mean there were no colonies in the Americas?

                Besides, throughout history you almost never see settlers leaving en masse when colonial administrations end. Sure, some recent arrivees may turn around, and some administrators who moved there mostly to work in the colonial government may leave, but you really never see the main body of settlers leave. You didn’t even have this in South Africa. They simply have to live under a government where they can’t shoot the locals with impunity.

                • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  5 months ago

                  That doesn’t really address the point though… Israel is independent, and was so from the start. It’s not bound to any other western country’s rule, which is the first requirement for being a colony.

              • idkmybffjoeysteel [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                5 months ago

                Sure I was born in Britain with British citizenship, but I identify as Middle Eastern so I should be granted somebody else’s land where they are currently living.

                These people should be blasted into fucking space if they need a homeland so badly. Zionism cannot even exist without the antisemitic belief in a fifth column. Are Jews an alien element in Western society, or do they belong to the societies in which they were born?

                I will tell you this: Middle Eastern people do not eat schnitzel.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                5 months ago

                You know that many Israelis did come from anglosphere or now-EU states, right? It’s not like it’s just a new social formation of people who already lived in the region.

          • Bnova [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            5 months ago

            Can I just lay claim to random pieces of land in Africa? I mean all people came from there at one point right?

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            I declare all of Sweden a homeland for the oppressed Stalinists (I have an incredibly remote connection to Norse settlers along with almost everyone else in my country)

          • Xavienth
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            5 months ago

            Don’t ask why genetic tests are banned in Israel, worst mistake of my life

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            It’s a project overwhelmingly lead by western states that has resulted in a huge importing of people who were born and raised in western states pretending they are indigenous to the region. If not for the west, Israel would neither have the resources to maintain its colonial project nor the population needed for occupying Palestine.

  • sndmn@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    A notorious, convicted terrorist said Palestine should resist by any means necessary.

    That was Nelson Mandela

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    5 months ago

    the maoist uprising against the landlords was the largest and most comprehensive proletarian revolution in history, and led to almost totally-equal redistribution of land among the peasantry

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    Hamas responded

    BREAKING: HAMAS OFFICIAL STATEMENT

    We appreciate the position expressed by the People’s Republic of China, during the public hearings held by the International Court of Justice, on the legal consequences of the occupation policies in the Palestinian Territory, and its affirmation of the legality of the occupied peoples’ pursuit of self-determination, by various means, including armed resistance, and the necessity not to confuse terrorism with And the armed struggle practiced by the Palestinian people against the Zionist occupation.

    We also value the positions of the countries participating in the sessions, which confirmed the widespread violations of international law practiced by the terrorist occupation entity against the Palestinian people and their occupied land, including massacres and genocide in the Gaza Strip, violations, killing, and expansion of settlement in the West Bank and Jerusalem, and work to bring about demographic changes in the Palestinian land. It aims to Judaize her and tamper with her identity.

    The terrorist occupation government’s boycott of the court sessions confirms once again its disregard for international institutions, and its policy of turning its back on international resolutions and commitments, which requires a clear position from the international community to end the rogue Zionist occupation, and to stop all its violations and crimes against our Palestinian people.

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    5 months ago

    I love that the generic lib response to this is to engage in Whataboutism regarding Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan. If you see someone doing this, remember to ask them how many countries recognize Palestine as a state versus any of those other places.

    • TheBroodian [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      5 months ago

      Really weird that libs continue to hang into any sentiment regarding Tibet when the Dalai Lama literally just tried to get a child to suck on his tongue in public just last year.

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        Even before he lost all credibility, the Dalai Lama said he would drop independence and pursue autonomy for Tibet as a part of China.

        All this is ignoring the wide popular support by Tibetan serfs for overthrowing their Lama masters in the first place.

        • Liz@midwest.social
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          5 months ago

          It was only recently that I learned China took over Tibet in the 1700s. You would think it happened a decade ago the way people talk about it.

          • Nimux2
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            Yeah, China has a stronger claim over Tibet than the US over its entire territory.

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      Also its beyond meaningless when you consider that at most idk 3% of the population of Xinjiang and 1% in Tibet is considering themselves to be occupied by China and are remotely likely to participate or aid in an armed struggle against the CPC, even at the best possible conditions

      Like sure, Tibetians have a right to engage in an armed anti-colonial struggle or kickstart an indeginous liberation movement ok. You probably couldnt even fill an NBA stadium with those willing so what does that leave their lib free Tibet dreams. The CIA was trying to recruit and instigate an anti-chinese sessesionist movement last century and they gave up because they couldnt find enough willing Tibetians to get the project off the ground. And they had a budget of dozens and dozens of millions to pay off poor ass Tibetians and they still couldnt find any fertile sessesionist sentiment. And thats on record

  • WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    I thought China was on team Israel. Or maybe I’m confused because they’re helping Russia, and Russia is on team Israel? International politics is weird sometimes.

    • StalinIsMaiWaifu
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      For decades China’s policy has been team territorial integrity (ie borders were set in 1948, and people shouldn’t talk about them). Previously this meant supporting the 1967 borders. Their current position is still consistent with this (Israel still occupies the west bank), and has the added bonus of improving relations in the region which China has already invested a good deal in (see belt and road initiative)

      Honestly this is one of the more straightforward cases of geopolitics, shit like the Nigerian Civil war however…

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        Uyghurs would have a right to armed resistance if they were being occupied, but—aside from the CIA-backed terrorists in the 2010s who went on sprees of knifing & bombing & running people over—the Uyghurs don’t think they are being occupied.

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          I’m sure the West is exaggerating the war-crimes China is committing, but Uyghurs were and are still most definitely oppressed

          Even if the CIA backs a group, for example the Taliban, there is a root issue of oppression which inspires those resistance groups to take those CIA arms.

          In the case of the Taliban it first was the Russians (and later on the Americans).

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            Even if the CIA backs a group, for example the Taliban, there is a root issue of oppression which inspires those resistance groups to take those CIA arms.

            That can and does happen. But what also can and does happen is the CIA finds people willing to stir up shit just for the money and the opportunity to seize power.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            The US’s “Uyghur genocide” disinformation campaign has already been debunked several times over, meanwhile it’s providing material support for a real one in Palestine as we speak, and Guantanamo Bay and other black sites are still in operation.

            .

            The blueprint of regime change operations

            We see here for example the evolution of public opinion in regards to China. In 2019, the ‘Uyghur genocide’ was broken by the media (Buzzfeed, of all outlets). In this story, we saw the machine I described up until now move in real time. Suddenly, newspapers, TV, websites were all flooded with stories about the ‘genocide’, all day, every day. People whom we’d never heard of before were brought in as experts — Adrian Zenz, to name just one; a man who does not even speak a word of Chinese.

            Organizations were suddenly becoming very active and important. The World Uyghur Congress, a very serious-sounding NGO, is actually an NED Front operating out of Germany […]. From their official website, they declare themselves to be the sole legitimate representative of all Uyghurs — presumably not having asked Uyghurs in Xinjiang what they thought about that.

            The WUC also has ties to the Grey Wolves, a fascist paramilitary group in Turkey, through the father of their founder, Isa Yusuf Alptekin.

            Documents came out from NGOs to further legitimize the media reporting. This is how a report from the very professional-sounding China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) came to exist. They claimed ‘up to 1.3 million’ Uyghurs were imprisoned in camps. What they didn’t say was how they got this number: they interviewed a total of 10 people from rural Xinjiang and asked them to estimate how many people might have been taken away. They then extrapolated the guesstimates they got and arrived at the 1.3 million figure.

            Sanctions were enacted against China — Xinjiang cotton for example had trouble finding buyers after Western companies were pressured into boycotting it. Instead of helping fight against the purported genocide, this act actually made life more difficult for the people of Xinjiang who depend on this trade for their livelihood (as we all do depend on our skills to make a livelihood).

            Any attempt China made to defend itself was met with more suspicion. They invited a UN delegation which was blocked by the US. The delegation eventually made it there, but three years later. The Arab League also visited Xinjiang and actually commended China on their policies — aimed at reducing terrorism through education and social integration, not through bombing like we tend to do in the West.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    I was wondering why so many comments with any criticism against China were being downvoted.

    Then I noticed which instance this was posted on.

    And then all those comments were removed by mods. Which only proved their points.

    • Alsephina@lemmy.mlOP
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      Welcome to Lemmy. It’s not quite as full of imperial core propaganda about everything that challenges its imperialism as Reddit is.

      Well, maybe except LW. Saw someone with a zionazi flag in their username there once.

    • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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      The problem with your comparison with Taiwan is Taiwan is an island that is part of China but is currently controlled by an occupying force. This is agreed upon by almost all nations except for 12, the US also agrees on this btw.

      What the west is saying is that regardless of this, China does not have the right to an armed resistance against Taiwan even though they consider it part of China. They even agreed to arm Taiwan to prevent this attack from happening.

      So in terms of their statement on Palestine, this is actually consistent. The Palestinians have a right to kick out their occupiers, much like China has the right to kick out Taiwan’s occupiers.

      You view it differently, but as I stated before almost all members of the UN agree Taiwan is part of China.

      *Edit: On a personal level I don’t actually agree with this. I don’t want an invasion of Taiwan. I’m merely pointing out the “gotcha” you tried to set up doesn’t actually make sense. Instead it’s actually quite consistent with China’s position on Taiwan.

      *Edit 2: This is also why China seems petty and runs around making sure all nations that trade with China state there’s only one China. That’s what the whole Lithuania thing was about. China is stating if the majority of the UN believes in a 2 party solution, then the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. Since the majority of UN believes in a 1 party solution for Taiwan, then it’s the Taiwanese who are the occupiers and China has a right to defend itself.

      *Edit 3: Ironically, the same cannot be said for China’s consistency on the SCS. If you wanted a “gotcha” then China’s claim to the SCS is absurd. But that said, they never said it was OK for them to be in an armed conflict over that. So I guess take that how you will.

        • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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          I talked about that. This is how China is keeping the messaging consistent. Again, according to most states in the UN, they want a 2 state solution for Palestine. That’s why China’s pushing an armed resistance solution for the Palestinians.

          Also, according to most states in the UN, they agree upon a 1 state solution for China and Taiwan. That’s why China’s pushing for an armed resistance solution against the Taiwanese occupiers.

          It doesn’t matter what states say internally or want internally. The whole point is consistency of message from the Chinese. Which is armed resistance is acceptable for occupations. Thus, no “oh what if it turned around on China?” It’s consistent messaging, there’s no turning around.

          NOW what you’re arguing is that the people don’t feel that way. Which means the west isn’t following it’s own “rule of law”. The problem with your argument is it makes clear that China is the one agreeing and following the UN rulings and the west is bending the “rules of law”. This is also why China cares so much about what they’re “hearing” as you stated and doesn’t really care about what they say internally. Which seems petty to you, but means China is actually obeying rule of law and the west is not.

            • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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              Well tell that to your government. They are not saying that. And until most of the UN agrees with that, Taiwan can’t be considered a country.

              In fact, as a Taiwanese person, I’d prefer it if people like yourself didn’t just say platitudes like Taiwan is a country and then do literally nothing in your votes to make that happen. You disappoint me.

            • jonne@infosec.pub
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              De facto it is. But according to the one China policy that the US subscribes to, it’s not. It’s also not a part of many UN organisations.

    • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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      That fact that China is the one saying it has no impact on the validity of the argument.

        • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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          So does the US. They are both imperialist nations with opposing interests. It’s not worth pointing out unless you are acknowledging how they both do it.

          Each is in the best position to lay out valid criticisms of the other. You just have to use media literacy to be able to discern valid points from propaganda.

          • Shalakushka@kbin.social
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            No shit, they were discussing the possible geopolitical implications, not saying China is uniquely duplicitous. Please use your media literacy to not insert words into people’s mouths.

      • Red Army Dog Cooper@lemmy.ml
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        this is pattently false, and this statement right here is why the PRC is able to run circles around the west, while also publishing 5 year plans on exactly what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. The west just pretends they are lieing

    • Alsephina@lemmy.mlOP
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      There is no such as a “civilian” in an occupying colony. Half the population in “israel” are military conscripts, and most of the other half are fascists and settlers just the same; there are very few people in the colony actually plotting/fighting against the state.

      By your logic, the Viet Cong, which used the same tactics (attacking villages, taking hostages, using tunnels and guerilla warfare) and had the same goals (driving out foreign occupiers and reuniting their country) as Hamas, and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which (regardless of its intentions and goals) resulted in the deaths of thousands of Jews at the hands of the nazis similar to how Palestinians are being killed by “israel” now after the Oct 7 assault, were “terrorists” (whatever that even means).

      Hamas is currently the largest Palestinian armed resistance group (and was even directly elected by the people of Gaza at that) and deserves everyone’s support.

        • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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          violate human rights

          Source: The countries actually violating human rights with every incentive to throw bs accusations at their geopolitical rivals.

            • Arelin@lemmy.zip
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              I clearly wouldn’t want to listen to the US governments position on Israel, why should China be any different?

              Why not? The only countries accusing China of whatever they can are imperial core ones.

              surprised they allow tankies here

              Ah, the “woke” for leftists. Meaningless term, but it does sound cool ig

              Surprised they allow libs here.