I have been a lurker here on lemmy for a while and I have hesitantly made an account because I wanted to create a post on politics.
I want to preface this by saying, I lived a childhood being indoctrinated on politics. I was constantly being told that free markets are the pinnacle of human intellect and that free markets (in literally an absolutist way on every aspect of life) is the only way that leads to progress. It honestly took me a while to challenge these beliefs with I attribute to Shaun and Hbomberguy on youtube, and eventually embrace leftist ideas in my personality.
When the recent drama regarding the Uighur muslims occured recently I was a bit let down. I have looked around and saw posts that I understand to be supportive of the CCP in China and other communist states.
So here is my question. Why? Even if we forget about the Uighur, what about the Tianamen square massacre? Is that also false information? China’s tightening grip on hong kong despite being met with resistance from people of Hong Kong, is that also false information? The repercussions of Mao’s leadership? The complete absence of gay and trans rights in modern day China? China being a police state? Is that all false propaganda?
If your answer might be that western states have also failed to protect the interests of common people, I agree. I think western states do see a resurgence of far right movements exactly for this reason. But this is not a comparison of who is the worst.
Why exactly do people here (at least that is what I perceive) turn a blind eye to the brutalities of an authoritarian government such as the CCP?
How do you define support? Have you looked into dialectical materialism? One can support *an entity and still see the contradictions, and still strive for the resolution of these contradictions. This is said a lot - communism is not a religion. It is not a static set of rules and principles. It is a science, and it aims to resolve the contradictions of capitalism through materialist means. We should not succumb to the black and white dichotomy that monotheism has been instilling into us.
When I say support, I want to describe the “western propaganda” argument. That my perspective is skewed because I have only been influenced by media in European countries (where I live) and the US.
I mean, ok, I can make an attempt to reconsider. But then I see the same pattern. “Incident A” was not as bad as portrayed by media, “Incident B” the same, and so on. It ends up demanding that I change my perspective of history, which I am not willing to do, because it really is too much to ask for.
I am sure that upon examination of history, people here will unequivocally condemn the massacre that happened in Nanking during WW2 by the then japanese imperial army. But when discussing the tianamen square massacre, it was suddenly not that bad?
This gives me exactly the same feeling as nationalist apologia. We were the good guys when we inhabited this land (completely neglecting possible harm to others), and other nations were bad when they attacked our beautiful country.
You deliberately choose not to re-examine the legitimacy of claims made by your sources, and then accuses us of holding extremist beliefs 🙃.
How is this even comparable?? what do you think happened in Tiananmen Square?
What I think happened in tianamen square aligns with the wikipedia article on it.
I transparently said that I can attempt to reconsider my perspective. A demand to reconsider my perspective repeatedly on the argument that I only read the “western propaganda”, is too much to ask for.
I can go ahead and admit that there is no cultural cleansing of Uighur muslims. Next talking point, the tianamen square. Again, “western propaganda”, it did not happen. The Maoist era? Again, it is intentionally portrayed as horrific by media, therefore “western propaganda”.
I do not accept to change my mindset and perception under a repeated, and frankly easy to abuse argument, that it is all some CIA conspiracy.
Oh, OK I misread your argument, you’re right that ‘everything is western propaganda’ is not a good argument. But that’s not the sole basis of our historical analysis it’s just an important part of it. I’ll provide you a learning list on the Uyghur topic to demonstrate this
1st video
2nd video
3rd video
Qiao Collective Article
The Truth behind the Uyghur problem
1st Megathread
2nd megathread
We don’t dismiss every bad thing socialist countries did as western propaganda, it’s understable why you might think that since most of these ‘bad things’ are just western propaganda, there are legitimate criticisms of the CPC, other Socialist countries and their leaders, we acknowledge that, we don’t think those mistakes define them. and most importantly we won’t let those mistakes overshadow the great achievements they made for our movement.
I went through some of the links. To be honest, no matters the sources, I don’t think I can let myself trust viewpoints that align with highly authoritarian entities. I believe that you share the links in good faith, but that is a world view that I prefer to stay away from.
On the other hand I am more than willing to discuss socialism, in fact book recommendations would be welcome.
You accused us of dismissing sources as western propaganda and now you are doing the same by labeling it as authoritarian propaganda.🙃
Read that again comrade, I hope you’ll see the fallacy 🤗
I’m still learning theory, I don’t think I have read enough to give recommendations you can ask for that in communities dedicated for learning.
There might be an irony, and I kinda see it, but also I have the right to withhold my suspicions which at the moment I think harms noone comrade.
Removed by mod
You are conflating different events. The massacre in nianjing was different from European colonialism which was different from the Tiananmen protests. Therefore they have to be studied independently.