If their losses were that low they wouldn’t need to go to the lengths that they are to scrape the bottom of the barrel for mobilization.
And if Russia’s losses were higher than Ukraine’s we would also know about it, instead we have pro-Ukraine sources like Mediazona quietly admit that Russian losses are fairly low at the moment actually. So they are coping super hard here.
They are rehashing the old “human waves” trope which was not really true in WW2 (it was a cope that the Nazi generals invented to explain away their defeats) and is certainly not true now for Russia, who are going to great lengths to conserve manpower, arguably too much so according to some of the more hardline opinions on the Russian side (i don’t agree with them).
If any side is playing into that trope right now it is Ukraine with its habit of throwing untrained conscripts from the streets into the trenches and use almost exclusively light infantry assaults in order to conserve their precious western-donated equipment.
If their losses were that low they wouldn’t need to go to the lengths that they are to scrape the bottom of the barrel for mobilization.
Do you remember all the apocalyptic visions of endless zombieorc human wave attacks by Wagner being mowed down like grass in crossfire spun by the western and Ukrainian propaganda during the battle of Bakhmut? Now Wagner claim 20000 KIA - figure accepted by both NATO and UA, and UA claim their own losses were… also 20000 KIA. So either they admit they were lying or those endless zombieorc human wave attacks were in fact more successful (since they won!) than the awesome in depth defence by elite UA brigades armed and trained by the invincible NATO?
Bakhmut was probably the only battle of this entire war where the casualties were about equal on both sides. Partly due to the urban nature of the fighting but also partly i suspect due to how Prigozhin used Wagner as an extension of his own ego. In every other engagement on every other front the disparity in casualties has been heavily skewed in Russia’s favor, especially when they are on the defensive. Though Russia having such a disproportionate artillery superiority and being able to employ actual air power leads to higher Ukrainian casualties even when the Russians are technically attacking, like is the case in the new cauldron that has formed around Avdeyevka.
I doubt the losses were equal, Wagner estimate of their own losses seems pretty sus in light of both Ukraine and USA just accepting that figure after previously claiming around fuckzillion. Maybe they used that opportunity to scratch some paper-only soldiers, i never heard about mercenary outfit that didn’t had those.
But regardless, they also claim 50000 UA KIA, which is most likely also overestimated but the proportion of 2:5 seems to be much more consistent with various estimates during the battle.
At this point we’re entering into speculative territory but i would not be surprised if you were right once we count the losses that the Ukrainians took on the flanks, as well as those taken in trying to supply the Bakhmut garrison. I believe that is where the more disproportionate losses were inflicted by Russia: in forcing Ukraine to try and assault the pincers to relieve the semi-encirclement, and in trying to get reinforcements and supplies into the city through roads under Russian fire control. For the block to block fighting inside the city itself i still think it makes more sense for the casualties to be close to equal, but i don’t think we’ll know for sure any time soon. I also suspect you are right that Wagner tend to inflate both sides’ figures.
i don’t agree with the last paragraph, i didn’t made much sense, emulating the west because hatred of soviets and them doing what is believed the soviets did.
i do agree that ukraine is trying to emulate the west, so their tactics became a mishmash of soviet tactics and nato tactics, it is on that limbo that is neither and the nature of this war itself, this isn’t ukraine’s war, so the true owners of this conflict has 0 consideration for troop safety, as long russia is being wore out and no westerns lives are put at risk.
If their losses were that low they wouldn’t need to go to the lengths that they are to scrape the bottom of the barrel for mobilization.
And if Russia’s losses were higher than Ukraine’s we would also know about it, instead we have pro-Ukraine sources like Mediazona quietly admit that Russian losses are fairly low at the moment actually. So they are coping super hard here.
They are rehashing the old “human waves” trope which was not really true in WW2 (it was a cope that the Nazi generals invented to explain away their defeats) and is certainly not true now for Russia, who are going to great lengths to conserve manpower, arguably too much so according to some of the more hardline opinions on the Russian side (i don’t agree with them).
If any side is playing into that trope right now it is Ukraine with its habit of throwing untrained conscripts from the streets into the trenches and use almost exclusively light infantry assaults in order to conserve their precious western-donated equipment.
Do you remember all the apocalyptic visions of endless
zombieorchuman wave attacks by Wagner being mowed down like grass in crossfire spun by the western and Ukrainian propaganda during the battle of Bakhmut? Now Wagner claim 20000 KIA - figure accepted by both NATO and UA, and UA claim their own losses were… also 20000 KIA. So either they admit they were lying or those endlesszombieorchuman wave attacks were in fact more successful (since they won!) than the awesome in depth defence by elite UA brigades armed and trained by the invincible NATO?Bakhmut was probably the only battle of this entire war where the casualties were about equal on both sides. Partly due to the urban nature of the fighting but also partly i suspect due to how Prigozhin used Wagner as an extension of his own ego. In every other engagement on every other front the disparity in casualties has been heavily skewed in Russia’s favor, especially when they are on the defensive. Though Russia having such a disproportionate artillery superiority and being able to employ actual air power leads to higher Ukrainian casualties even when the Russians are technically attacking, like is the case in the new cauldron that has formed around Avdeyevka.
I doubt the losses were equal, Wagner estimate of their own losses seems pretty sus in light of both Ukraine and USA just accepting that figure after previously claiming around fuckzillion. Maybe they used that opportunity to scratch some paper-only soldiers, i never heard about mercenary outfit that didn’t had those.
But regardless, they also claim 50000 UA KIA, which is most likely also overestimated but the proportion of 2:5 seems to be much more consistent with various estimates during the battle.
At this point we’re entering into speculative territory but i would not be surprised if you were right once we count the losses that the Ukrainians took on the flanks, as well as those taken in trying to supply the Bakhmut garrison. I believe that is where the more disproportionate losses were inflicted by Russia: in forcing Ukraine to try and assault the pincers to relieve the semi-encirclement, and in trying to get reinforcements and supplies into the city through roads under Russian fire control. For the block to block fighting inside the city itself i still think it makes more sense for the casualties to be close to equal, but i don’t think we’ll know for sure any time soon. I also suspect you are right that Wagner tend to inflate both sides’ figures.
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i don’t agree with the last paragraph, i didn’t made much sense, emulating the west because hatred of soviets and them doing what is believed the soviets did.
i do agree that ukraine is trying to emulate the west, so their tactics became a mishmash of soviet tactics and nato tactics, it is on that limbo that is neither and the nature of this war itself, this isn’t ukraine’s war, so the true owners of this conflict has 0 consideration for troop safety, as long russia is being wore out and no westerns lives are put at risk.
Yeah you’re probably right.
I saw something about the Russians losing 20 - 60 people a day on average compared to what Ukraine has been saying about 1000 or whatever stupid shit.
https://en.zona.media/article/2022/05/20/casualties_eng
(casualty map has a little slider thing)