2020 was… truly unique. It was so hard to stay away from doom scrolling, and I (and many others) were pretty disillusioned by the sad fact that so much of our country legitimately supported the Orange Man. I didn’t get a wink of sleep the night of the election because I genuinely considered it to be a make or break decision for America.
My point is that looking back on it, in the end the only real difference I made was at the ballet box. This year I’m going for the Head-in-the-Sand approach. I’m done with the political memes. Done with the Twitter screenshots. It just riles me up and this year I’m gonna do my best to fight that.
It’s not a question of policy. Republicans literally killed people last election trying to overthrow democracy.
Not that I even like democrats, but anyone who votes red after Jan 6th is fundamentally an enemy of democracy.
This sham democracy that you fervently support kills people everyday.
It also happens to be where I live. Doing nothing doesn’t help anything.
Agreed. So don’t vote to make things slightly less worse, vote to make things better!
If we used just about anything but FPTP, absolutely. But as I see it, if I want to have any hope of being able to vote to make things better next time, I have to vote to just make things slightly less worse this time.
Perfect is the enemy of the good, and the GOP is the enemy of both.
But hey, if you see it differently, I don’t see any reason we can’t be friends. I just disagree.
It can be easy to feel like a drop of water in a large ocean when it comes to national elections. But you should also vote in your county and state elections; you can probably make more of a difference there.
I’m not saying “don’t vote in the national election”, but just know that there are other elections to vote in, and thry are just as important as the nationals.
Yah I can vote for the red mayor who wants more cops or the blue mayor who wants more cops. Freedom rings!
Unless you’re in a big big city, mayoral and council races can actually have a lot of diversity in terms of political outlooks. Never forget that a town elected a dog as mayor. Nobody that pure would ever make it to federal office.
There certainly are places like that. I’d vote for a dog over any of our candidates in the last local election. Or anyone running on banning the damn roadside signs. Alternatively, the candidates themselves have to pluck them out from along the highway on ramps and whatever other places they’ve been planted the night of the election and before the morning light.
Our local election was bupkis. The red one won because the blue one won last time and nothing changed and people are still unhappy. The mayoral race prior went about the same way, but the blue one won because the red one in the office did nothing differently and no one was happy.
You understand that “voting for a dog” for mayor is just Conservatism right? You know make the government small enough to drown in a bathtub, Reagan etc?
I was trying to use a funny example to illustrate the point that a lot more things are possible at the local level than the federal level, particularly in terms of electing a candidate with more diverse political alignment. Anyway, most of the time when an animal wins a mayorship, it’s in an unincorporated area where mayor is more of an honorary title than an actual political position. The point is that local races are still worth voting and participating in.
One of them also wants to ban books.
Vermont, my former residence, has a republican governor that’s been repeatedly reelected who the country at large considers a RINO. Non-federal level parties may differ significantly from their national stances.
It’s actually the same in BC, Canada where I emigrated… the BC Liberals were partially anti-choice and deeply religious (so closer to the CPC than LPC), as such they recently rebranded to “BC Unity Party”… did they check that their new name didn’t acronym to BCUP? No, they did not.
There’s so many acronyms here my head is spinning
I’m voting for the most progressive candidate possible in the primary, and then whoever’s not the Republican in the general, and I fully intend to do that for the rest of my life.
The Republican Party has some plans they’re putting together, and between that and the rhetoric that most major Republican politicians and candidates spout these days (very specifically including Trump), it’s abundantly clear they’ve more or less completely given up on democracy, and are planning on dismantling a significant proportion of the core institutions of our country and government, which will effectively usher in the American Empire (as in: a possibly theocratic, but definitely authoritarian and likely outright fascist dictatorship). To be clear: that would be a Very Bad Thing. You think Russia is troublesome now? Wait until Trump or someone similar starts treating them like an ally, emulating as much of Putin’s power structure as possible just because they think it’s cool and would make them look powerful, and potentially teaming up to do shitty things to the rest of the world because we have something like 95% of the nuclear weapons ever produced, and while Russian ones are in a questionable state, ours definitely work.
If Republicans win this next election - and especially if they are able to secure the presidency and both houses of Congress - I genuinely don’t think things will recover without significant domestic political violence, which may ultimately result in a civil war. I’m doing my best to prepare for some “GTFO” contingencies that could be executed in the next few years, but it’s not an easy thing to do, and there’s still a huge number of unknowns in a ton of dimensions.
If you think I’m being hyperbolic, you’re not paying attention.
Oh hey look, it’s the only rational voting strategy in a FPTP elective structure! Anyone who thinks different is just more evidence we need Civics back in our schools.
more evidence we need Civics back in our schools
Maybe we need more math as well - have you heard of the Ultimatum Game? Sometimes the rational strategy is to reject unfair split offers, even if that makes it a guarantee that you both get nothing.
Sometimes the rational strategy is to reject unfair split offers, even if that makes it a guarantee that you both get nothing.
Yup. Mutually assured destruction: either the malfeasant and murderous can get right and start fixing what they’ve ruined, or I don’t have a single issue becoming a lead weight around the country’s neck. Ain’t like this country hasn’t tried to kill me by cop more than once anyway, I have no reason to want to see this awful joke of an empire perpetuate.
Is there a neutral review of project 2025 that you can point to? That site is ass and either points to a book you can buy or a thousand links to PDFs.
Please define “neutral review” in this context.
The whole thing is unrepentantly and deeply biased, and it’s intentional.
I don’t know if this matches your definition of “neutral”, but it must be said that “neutral” is not synonymous with “unbiased”.
Yes I meant unbiased, but I was unsure if even using that word would be taken the wrong way. I don’t want to be taken as a centrist or anything like that, because I’m not even close.
I just want a flat clinical review of what it says versus what it actually means without clickbait sensationalism. It is plainly bad, that much is obvious. But what are the real-life, bureaucratic implications of its potential execution?
Thanks for the link, I’ll definitely check it out.
The Constitution needs to be rewritten anyway and we are overdue, preserving the status quo is enabling American fascism.
Well I won’t be voting for the fascist party…
Which one? The Democratic Party has been supporting genocide. It’s well past time we recognized that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are both fascist and reject them accordingly.
I get the concept. I do. And I wrestle with the notion myself, as I’m an anarchist (you and I don’t agree on a few things, lemmygrad friend).
But I don’t subscribe to the notion that not voting as a principled abstainer is a righteous act…I don’t think. Because I do agree, of course. The democrats are capitalist, war-mongering shitheels. They aren’t “good” or just or righteous by any stretch of the imagination. They destroy the environment and will kill us if we challenge the status quo of lte stage consumer capitalism. I have no illusions about this.
But doing nothing in the face of a Republican Party that is hellbent on wiping trans people from the face of the earth, strapping us all to the whipping chair until they can establish a Christofascist nightmare in which we are all beaten into straight, white submission is…not a heroic act. Because, yeah, the democrats support Israel, they are neoliberal capitalist pigs. They boost police budgets whenever they can, they take obscene amounts of money from special interests and work for them, not for us. But the republicans do all the same shit PLUS hating trans and gay people and pass laws that make it so they can lock you away for protesting and they are clearly more “business friendly” because they can be open about it while the democrats have to do slightly less because their rhetoric and their base don’t approve like Republican voters do.
My point is, there are two terrible options. Yes, we are in agreement. And yes, electoralism is bullshit, incrementalism will get us nowhere. But hierarchy is bullshit. Capitalism is bullshit. These things will exist until some insanely devastating event upturns the way the world has run for a long time.
Not voting won’t change these realities. VOTING won’t change them. But all the people that are hurt by an emboldened xenophobe and vicious bigot WILL be hurt. Actual, measurable hurt. PLUS the Palestinian people you’re basing your position on will continue to be killed. Because the US supports Israel. Not the democrats or republicans, but the US.
Not voting against a party that is openly using REAL LIFE fascist methods and speech so you can maintain your perceived purity isn’t noble.
We can all hate capitalism. But we’re stuck with it right now. We can all hate electoralism. But we’re stuck with it right now. Capitalism kills way more people than the genocide currently happening in Palestine. But you’re way more involved with it than you would be in electoralism by casting one vote.
These things are truths right now. You’d do a lot more good (or at least contribute A LOT less hurt) by abstaining from capitalism than you would abstaining from electoralism. We can all be principled. But all-or-nothing-ism that is rampant on “the left” (read: in modern people with principles and humanity and half a brain) isn’t noble because it helps. It’s perceived as noble because you can say, “pfft. I didn’t _____.” You’re not helping anymore but yourself.
Engage in praxis. Fight for your beliefs. But when your abstinence will be weaponized by insanely powerful and horrible people, and leveraged against minority groups, your “purity” is nothing but self-aggrandizement.
Not voting against anti-trans Christian fascist bigots is a huge show of privilege.
Amerika as an empire deserves to die. I will not pencil-whip your colonizers or genociders without them giving up said colonialism and genocide first, and verifiably, long-term at that. I will not stand alongside that and tarnish my community’s history misleading that way; and I don’t care how many people try to couch it in “but what about your (white) countrymen?!”
If they cosign the Democrat Party’s genocides, if they back the colonizing invaders, then fuck them. They are emphatically not my ‘countrymen’, especially not my allies, and can only be seen as weak links that deserve to go with the nation in the same fire.
We may as well be two entirely different nations at this point with how much enmity I see in your party of colonizers.
Lol you really didn’t read what I said, huh?
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On Stoke, as soon as you wanted to play the “not voting for the blue genociders is an act of privilege” horseshit like every other aggrieved liberal cracker I’ve had the misfortune of knowing, I stopped caring what you had to say. You’re just another opp to me seein that-- because not a single peckerwood that’s ever run the play you’re running right now, where you try to act like you’re ragging on the Democrat party while still stumping for them, not one has ever been able to sell that shit. That’s disingenuous to me, just as disingenuous as the Republicans who go token-fishing to find minorities to weaponize.
Nah, man. I’m just an adult. I have my principles. And casting a single vote, I’m still sure what my principles are. And they don’t align with the Democratic Party.
But while there are two harmful options, one is significantly more harmful to populations of people whose very existence is apparently up for debate, friends of mine who I see struggle every day—also anarchist, but transgender (…who have also decided to give up a little of their pride in their stringent ideals in order to not be made illegal or to keep younger trans kids from suffering the way they did growing up in the 90s/early 2000s), opened my eyes to the urgency of the situation for them.
I didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton. Obama didn’t get my vote either time. But I did vote for joe Biden. I didn’t love it. But I did it. It didn’t take too long, and I continued living my principles. I didn’t burst into flames.
I’ve voted third party most of my life. And I’ve wavered on this as I’ve gone through my life. I make a judgement call when I can. But I started reading anarchist literature young. Like I said, I came of age under late Clinton/bush II. So my radicalization happened early. And my proactivity in my beliefs has come and gone. But my principles have stayed the same. I dunno how old you are, but honestly, I’m assuming you’re kinda young based on the way you speak. I was cooking for FNB and burning American flags and spray painting banks and paint bombing Lockheed Martin longer than you seem to have been alive.
I think of my taking a few minutes to cast a ballot against a genuine fascist movement like harm reduction in drug addiction. I don’t support drug addiction, but I do want to help those at the mercy of the worst of it. Drug addiction is horrible. Our electoralism is horrible. I don’t want to support either. But there is a little I can do to reduce the harm to most vulnerable victims of both.
I’m secure enough in my beliefs and can still be a full-fledged anarchist doing my praxis and casting a vote. My beliefs aren’t so flimsy that I need to PROVE TO EVERYONE IM ABOVE IT. I’ve been there. I can still see the problems inherent in our system while casting a vote. I can still hate capitalism while working and spending money. It’s not the system we want. My beliefs are lived through my praxis and my sense of what I believe. Not by what I DONT do. Electoralism will still exist if you vote or not. Not participating in the vote doesn’t do shit to electoralism. You not voting won’t help the Palestinians. My voting won’t help them either, as we both agree. But there are people in my direct vicinity and in my life and in this country that I MIGHT have the off-chance of keeping from harm by sacrificing my own sense of “purity as an anarchist.” The electoral system doesn’t live nor die by my vote. To think that way is beyond self-centered.
Voting straight Democrat. The republican party is the biggest threat to the US right now.
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That commenter is from Hexbear. There’s no way they support Trump.
This is the argument every single election. Every time, for decades, and yet things get continually worse.
I’d argue the belief that voting for an establishment party is any kind of a long-term solution is the biggest threat. By all means do it if it’ll help a little in the short term, but the ship’s still sinking.
Short term is all anyone cares about, from government to corporations to individuals. Which is why I only give this country another 50 years, tops.
While I agree in my dislike for the current Republican Party, the attitude of blindly voting for your team because the other is evil is exactly what my (late) fox-addicted grandfather used to uphold. I loved the man, but I think we ought to do better and do the hard work of researching every candidate and choosing the best, be it democrat, republican, or independent.
Gave you and upvote to get you back off zero and agree with your general sentiment.
But - the elections since Trump took the ROC convention have all been different - we must get rid of all the R’s we can no matter what at the local, state and national level as soon as possible now that the have proven to be an existential threat to democracy itself.
American Democracy is fucked. It needs to go away.
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I’m going to complain about not having a primary option for president, vote for the left-most person I can in the primary, and then vote down-ballot (D) in November. There’s nothing I need to research with respect to these modern conservatives. Most democrats aren’t really much better in most ways, but at least I can look my marginalized friends and colleagues in the eye after the election.
Yeah pretty much this. Not much point to me following the political discourse and all that, all it’ll do is just make me angry and depressed.
Vote DNC and hate it.
Oh, who told you the 2024 campaign slogan?
I see a lot of people here frustrated with our two party system. I too am frustrated. Donate to FairVote to get ranked choice on the ballot in more states. Ranked choice voting allows voters to express actual preferences between more than two parties and it is a win no matter who you normally vote for. Many states have a ballot measure system that can be used to pass legislation without requiring the agreement of the state legislature. Several US states have implemented ranked choice voting already. http://fairvote.org
Preferential voting is a far superior system.
For those unfamiliar, here’s an example:
If you like a minor party, say, the Green party, hate another minor party, say, Libertarian, more than you hate the Republicans and would settle for Democrats if you had to, then your vote would look like:
- Green
- Democrat
- Republican
- Libertarian
And if your (1) Green candidate didn’t have enough votes to win outright, and no-one else did either, then your vote would go to the (2) democrat, who has all the (1) democrat and (2) democrat votes added together. If the democrat didn’t have enough votes to win, then it would go to the Republican.
This is simplified, but should be enough to give the idea of how your vote always matters, and allows a better variety of ideas to flourish.
ALSO: post-election, say the democrats won, but only did because they got a lot of second round preferential votes from the Greens voters, that would help convince them that if they want to stay in power, they need to adopt more Green policies.
If parties get elected with no help and just because the other option is orange meltdown, it does little to encourage improvement. All they have to be is better than the other side (who lies all the time anyway, making “better” appear more subjective than objective).
How to help fix voting in the USA:
- Preferential voting
- Nonpartisan government body to create voting districts (remove Gerrymandering completely)
- Fix the money: Caps on political donations. Full transparencies on all political donations and spending. Corporations aren’t people.
- Standardised ballots
- Disband the electoral college
- Change the size of the house/senate
Even some of the best countries’ voting methods are being constantly tweaked and improved. Nothing is perfect, but it’s an embarrassment how far behind the USA is.
I like the Green Party’s eco-socialism, but their anti-vaccine lunacy and inability to do anything electorally beyond run a presidential candidate every four years doesn’t give me the warm fuzzies.
I like Cornel West, and I appreciate his long-standing commitment to left-wing and anti-racist values.
That said, I live in the real world, where Donald Trump is running as an open fascist promising to make America a dictatorship if elected, and Joe Biden is the only candidate running with a realistic chance of beating him.
So I’ll be voting for every Democrat I possibly can, while wishing they were better than they are, as always.
Joe Biden is also an open fascist who is proudly facitating a genocide and ethnic cleansing
You won’t find an American president that doesn’t support Israel, you were close with bernie.
Because if there’s nothing else you can count on an American president for, it’s them being a standard-bearer for ethics.
I’ve voted for both Democrats and Republicans in the past. Frankly, neither one of them deserves too much power.
If Trump is the nominee I’m voting for the other candidate no matter who that is. There is no circumstance in which I would vote for Trump. The devil himself could be running against Trump and I would either vote for the devil or abstain. If he is the nominee then the election is essentially a fight for democracy.
Although I generally like Biden’s administration, I am concerned about him and his age. If there was a normal candidate running against him I would consider voting for them, but it’s mostly a bunch of wackadoos on the Republican side.
Chris Christie and Nikki Haley were the only ones in the last Republican debate who had any common sense. Christie’s campaign isn’t going anywhere because he’s anti-Trump. Haley is too conservative for my liking. Ramaswamy and DeSantis are garbage humans. The Republicans need a reboot because they really suck.
In other words, I’m team blue - not because I’m thrilled with them but because I’m afraid of the alternative.
The Republicans need a reboot
That sums it up. I’m conservative, but the GOP is such a train wreck now I just can’t support them.
I’m on the same page. The republicans need some feedback that what they’re doing isn’t going to win elections. Unfortunately I think it will take losing several more elections to sink in.
Spot on friend. Trumpers look at us and think we like Biden as much as they like Trump. Noooope. There were way better candidates. If anything the Dems are the party of the status quo and republicans are the party of “Fuck anyone who isn’t rich, white, and male”. I’d love an actual progressive party - I don’t see anything that the democrats have done in the last 8 years that has actually been progressive.
Right now, the choices are between boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. It’s not that hard a choice.
the boring corporatists are fully backing a genocide rn
not really seeing how that doesn’t qualify as 100% concentrated evil
I think they’re saying that the not-hard-choice is to abstain
Every single US president has backed Israel. Trump was the one that actually moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
“Every president has backed this genocidal state. Why try to stop the trend now?”
Backing genocide and not telling Israel to stop bombing, as even Republican presidents like Reagan have done, takes Biden from ‘the lesser of two evils’ to just evil. I won’t support genocide.
I won’t be shamed for not supporting genocide either. That’s on the Democratic party and Biden.
Frankly I don’t think there much boring about the genocide the corporatist is enabling.
If you avoid everyone who supports Israel in this fight you won’t have anyone to vote for. I swear Israel is part of the national narrative on both sides and I don’t understand why.
Volunteer and try to primary those old bastards out of office. The Squad is getting bigger every election.
If you avoid everyone who supports Israel in this fight you won’t have anyone to vote for
If you avoid everyone who supports Israel in this fight you won’t have anyone to vote for.
Then I guess I’m not voting huh? I don’t support colonizers, genociders, or the intersection of the two.
If you avoid everyone who supports Israel in this fight you won’t have anyone to vote for.
Yea I’m aware that’s why I’m writing in hunter Biden.
After voting for people who explicitly said they dont care about my support only to be blamed for their failures I’m putting my foot down and not voting for anybody enabling a genocide.
Don’t worry I live in upstate new york so unless I literally wad up my ballot and throw it at Biden so hard he dies my vote will have literally zero effect on the presidential race and I’m aware this is a very privellaged position to have.
I’m also voting straight working families party in local elections which usually get about 80 votes and the working families party candidate is the same as the dems.
Third Reich 100% glitchless speedrun (NO WARPS) vs a plate of room-temperature ketchup.
Vote against Republicans.
In 2016, I was an Independent. Straight down the middle. Would consider reasonable Democrats, Republicans, and 3rd party candidates.
In 2020, I was an Independent leaning Democratic. Would not consider Trump. Biden was locked in. Would hesitantly consider reasonable Republicans or Independents on a split ticket.
In 2024, I’m a Democrat. Will only consider Democrats up and down the ballot. No 3rd parties.
I dont think republicans have been reasonable on the whole at any point in my lifetime. Even Mccain was questionable and he was the best the republicans had.
Imo, there used to be a few reasonable individual Republican candidates here and there. But now they litmus test into these insane issues and they don’t adapt when things change in society. They just dig in their heels and start mud-slinging. I’m not even bothering with them anymore.
Do you live somewhere where voting for Democrats even matters?
Its the US so…no.
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Stuck between a rock and a hard place. It sucks.
I’m tired of the 2 party system. I don’t think I really have a party or political ideology that aligns with Democrats or Republicans and third party candidates are all over the place. I want to start voting on issues and not just politicians.
I don’t care what my politician’s feelings are. They represent a constituency and the only things they should be speaking about and for are exactly what they’re being asked for. Instead we have this political machine that takes every issues and gives it a red spin and a blue spin and then it’s force fed to the people.
Congress should not be creating our ideologies they should create the laws that structure the things the citizens want.
The Supreme Courr overturned Roe v Wade, put it on the ballet and let the people decide.
Gun control, put it on the ballet
Universal health care, put it on the ballet
Abandoning fossil fuels, put it on the ballet
Stop forcing your political and personal ideologies on us and start listing to the people. If we vote “Yes” on universal health care, the politicians must then go and figure out how to make it happen.
Let it truly be a government of the people, by the people, for the people.
i’m pretty sure the u.s. will collapse before it becomes a democracy, but it certainly is a nice dream
Preach!! That’s how a democracy should operate!
Definitely voting for someone who doesn’t support genocide for president. Down ballot I’ll likely vote 3rd party as well, but I haven’t decided for sure.
Congrats on helping to ensure you’ll never again have the right to vote during traitor trump’s fascist dictatorship that you’ll be enabling.
Hey I’m voting third party in a deep blue state also, you wanna be wicked condescending to me too? Take that energy to the phone banks, I bet the democrats never tried making a total ass of themselves before.
Congrats on saying “genocide is an acceptable price” out loud
You act like Republicans don’t have stronger ties to Israel and haven’t discriminated against Muslims. Either you’re naive or acting in bad faith.
OR I simply refuse to endorse any singular candidate who has funded genocide. You can call me whatever you want for having convictions while your lesser evil funds a holocaust
Naive. Got it.
Unattended consequences of your actions. Learn it before it’s too late.
Take care.
So are you going to take responsibility for the 11,500 people dead (since October 7th) as the unintended consequences of your actions? You told everyone we needed to vote Biden to protect people in 2020, did he protect them? And I don’t want to hear anything about trans people and gay people because there are trans people and gay people in Palestine, or do they not count because they weren’t fortunate enough to be born here or born White? I’m naive but you sleep like a baby with your hands covered in blood.
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I could say the same thing to people who made the same stupid choice in 2016 and let Roe get overturned. Oh look, that’s my point.
The largest benefactors of AIPAC and Israel in the house and senate are fucking democrats you dunce.
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One hand washes the other.
If Trump is one vote from winning NY then he swept the board. There’s no way NY goes red in any election that has NY as the tipping point state.
