How about: No arms deals with any entity that indiscriminately murders innocent people, women, and children?
Nice no more police funding
Yay!
Just yesterday Biden pulled $334M out of his arse for more police funding! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/biden-administration-announces-334m-to-hire-police-officers-improve-security-at-schools/ar-AA1jhl2b
Police at school lmao
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Shit no deals with Boeing, Northrup Grumman, etc.
Oh well, I’m certain they won’t bribe Congress to force their deals through… /s
How about: No arms deals?
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IMHO Putin is much more clearly in the wrong than either side of the Israeli conflict, which justifies arms deals that eventually end up in Ukraine.
So practically every major power in the world?
yes
What? Think about the BlackRock’s and Vanguard’s!
I’m still not seeing why Israel is being treated as a priority over or at least equal to Ukraine. Ukraine is up against a legitimately strong adversary using human wave tactics. Israel is dropping bombs seemingly indiscriminately on mostly civilians. Ukraine is fighting for its existence. Israel is getting revenge on its much, much weaker neighbor.
If Iran and its proxies enter the war, that might change the calculations, but that hasn’t happened yet.
Agreed. Isreal doesn’t need help putting the boot on helpless children.
It’s a strategic foothold in the region for the US. And “Jeebus.”
And the more support Israel gets to kill those civilians the more likely sympathetic regional neighbours would be inclined to join. And rightly so. It’s genocide.
Agreed. Even if Iran enters the war, it will be to stop a genocide. I don’t understand why the US is so keen to tie themselves to Netanyahu’s government.
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Exactly. Any threat to Israel is a threat to US legitimacy.
Republicans like Israel and don’t (all) like Ukraine
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We have already given the Ukraine over a 100b in funds. We don’t need to give them anymore. I also don’t want us to give aid to anyone.
Fuck Israel. We shouldn’t be supporting them at all.
They would fold under even the littlest bit of BDS, but that’s not going to happen because the US sees themselves in Israel.
Thus why nearly every state has made it illegal for any company that works with the government to be BDS-positive.
I can’t believe how many shitlibs there are in here, using this opportunity to guilt people with an actual conscience into voting for this piece of shit as if he has some sort of moral high ground.
What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
The real villain here is the system that makes any party outside of the two party system completely irrelevant: first-past-the-post.
We have two Republican parties. One of them just so happens to pretend better at being inclusive…but they secretly also wish that the poor could be burned to fuel their mega-yachts.
The one that isn’t taking away trans rights, making abortion illegal, and saying the last election was stolen, seems like the lesser evil actually. I can agree that I think our parties would be slightly better if first past the post was changed to allow for multiple parties, but i think it’s ridiculous to say both parties are currently the same. Edit: As I responded to thecrotch, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance of US politics or disinformation given the examples that I gave.
Not to people overseas. There’s no difference between being indiscriminately murdered by a Republican or a Democrat to the people dying.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed, Republicans are by not allowing women to get medically necessary abortions. To people over seas, seeinh one group deny the existence of covid, make abortions illegal, and passing laws restricting lgbt+ peoples rights is obviously the evil one.
I’m sure that the people in Syria who are being bombed and the people in Palestine who are being bombed by Israel using US dollars really care about our domestic politics as they watch their families get blown to shreds.
Democrats aren’t getting people killed
What do you think starting wars in the middle east does? Or do you not consider those people to be human.
They don’t have to be the same to both suck. The lesser evil is, by definition, evil.
But less evil.
Also by definition.
Who the fuck wants more evil?
Fine, vote your conscience. I was replying to a guy who said Democrats aren’t evil. That guy is wrong. Less evil doesn’t mean not evil.
And your argument is that someone already called them evil.
My argument is that they are evil. I made that argument to someone who said that they are not evil. Do you have a point?
Restating the conclusion is not what constitutes an argument.
You’re right, what I should have also added to my post was that, I disagree with the assertion that the Dem party is evil. Flawed? sure, our 2 party system will only allow for flawed parties, but to say their evil is downright showing ignorance or disinformation for the examples that I gave.
Democrats voted for Afghanistan, Iraq, the Patriot act, and countless other evil legislation. They’re absolutely evil. So they’re less evil than the Republicans, so what? Should I give them a cookie?
No, but you should still vote for them. What else can you do? Vote independent? Change the world?
My state is reliably going to be won by the same party no matter what I do, and that party is going to get 100% of our electoral votes no matter what I do. So I vote third party, because if they can get 20% of the popular vote they get to be in the debates next time around. Living in a locked down state, it’s the only way my vote can possibly have a chance of making any difference.
You’re like 20 years behind, catch up. Give them a cookie? Give them your vote. The alternative is republicans who RIGHT NOW, IN THIS YEAR are attempting to restrict abortions, deny the elections, restrict lgbt+ rights. Democrats are fighting against that. But yeah you’re right maybe split you’re vote because both sides “are the same”.
I didn’t say they’re the same. They don’t have to be the same to both suck. Fuck you for telling me how to vote. You got a lot of nerve.
The person you’re responding to isn’t wrong, but you do whatever you feel is right.
i can’t see any of them, which means a lot of them must have been banned already from hexbear lol lmao
Maybe I should switch to hexbear. I feel like I’m on 2016 Twitter, arguing with Neera Tanden’s astroturfing PPI team and they’re trying to brainwash other leftists to think that Single Payer is somehow bad.
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8 out of a total of 165 comments remain.
Went and checked the lemmy.ml version of the thread, and they sure weren’t lying about the shitlibs.
Glory to the moderators
No, we have Eisenhower Republicans, and Nazis.
I’ll grant you that.
Fascists. Not all fascists are Nazis, but all Nazis are faschists. They’re like squares and rectangles.
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If they’re both equally evil internationally and mostly equally evil domestically, am I allowed to vote for who is less likely to remove more human rights from women and trans people?
I would never tell anyone that they should vote, I understand people’s reasons for not doing it. Selfishly, I’m going to give myself the best chance of having access to life saving health care until I’m no longer of child bearing age.
Of course! I’m just standing up to speak my mind. We all are allowed to vote exactly as we see fit. I live in MA where I have the opportunity to vote with my conscience, but in a place like AL, SC, or KY, my strategy wouldn’t be helpful to those groups of people.
The two party system makes democracy in the US an absolute sham.
In terms of federal representatives, that’s rather like a poor white German supporting the Strassers.
If Hitler had actually held an election and the only options were him or a Strasser party, I don’t think it would be immoral to vote for the Strassers. But I also don’t think it would be a moral obligation if you had no reason to believe they would stop the Holocaust.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler, so I think the moral is that caping for a lesser evil instead of trying to build good (and those two things are normally opposed) is not a constructive behavior. I couldn’t give less of a shit who you personally vote for, that’s the consumer-lifestyle version of political engagement. I do care somewhat what you advocate for, because promoting the lesser evil is still promoting evil over good (using the overly moralistic phrasing of the adage).
Withholding support from Nazis (on any substantial level) is plainly the better option if you want to not need to keep choosing between two Nazis.
The 1932 election had a communist option, it’s unlikely that there will be one on my ballot.
We’re not going to overthrow fascism in America at the voting booth. I’m not trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden, that’s his job and he’s not doing it very well. I’m also not going to shame anyone for doing something easy like voting in the hopes that it makes them a tiny bit safer.
I would shame someone if they thought that voting democrat is a step towards bringing about positive change or parroted some bullshit about how we can get more concessions from Democrats than Republicans. If voting is the extent of your political engagement, you aren’t opposing fascism.
A vote for Hindenburg was indeed a vote for Hitler
How so? Hindenburg was Hitler’s biggest political adversary and refused to pronounce Hitler chancellor until 2 consecutive elections failed.
This is nonsense. MAGA is a fascist movement. Don’t let both being neo-liberal blind you.
And yet the United States continues to slide into fascism despite having elected Biden. What horrific Trump era policies did the Democrats even bother to repeal after they won in 2020 and held both the senate and the house?
They are still funding the construction of border wall segments. They never repealed the Republican tax cuts. They have done nothing about the concentration camps on the southern border for fuck’s sake. They never codified Roe v. Wade, we literally lost the right to abortions while Biden was in office. They could have stacked the supreme court but they didn’t.
The Democrats and the Republicans form an obfuscated one party system in the US. Republican leadership aggressively ramps up the oppression of marginalized people, then Democratic leadership does nothing to restore our rights nor proactively prevent the same thing from happening again. Instead they just use their time in office to suck all of the energy out of people’s movements that could actually effect change.
And much more importantly than all of that, Republicans and Democrats are virtually identically evil when it comes to foreign policy. When the US is dropping bombs on you and destroying your country, you’ll tend not to care whether it was a Red MAGA or Blue MAGA administration pulling the trigger.
In some specific cases it might be worthwhile to vote for Democrats in local elections where there exists much more leeway for politicians to stray from the party line, but voting for them in national elections is just lending your voice to legitimizing their bullshit good cop/bad cop routine they play with the Republicans.
Hear hear!!! My sentiments exactly! Thanks for putting it into words better than I could have.
Yes, that is a feature of democratic systems. Parties want to get voted in. So they bend their programs to achieve that goal. I live in Germany and here all parties are leaning further and further to the right, since the AfD (nationalist-conservative, some party members Neo-nazi) party is gaining in almost every poll.
If all that was at play here was mere democracy, we’d have an M4A candidate. The population is solidly to the left of either party on the majority of issues, but they get no voice because liberal democracy is an exercise in choosing between the options that capitalists have picked for you.
Your bubble is.
This is much less snappy than it is grammatically ambiguous.
Let me rephrase: “Your echochamber is”
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Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
To me, it sounds a whole lot like both Biden AND Trump can be considered fascists….especially with this idea of secret military aid to Israel that I’m reacting to here.
Looking at it from an economic definition perspective though Biden represents the financial bourgeoisie and Trump represents more industrial bourgeoisie
I’d actually argue that Trump comes from the real estate bourgeoisie but I agree on the Biden characterization. Biden never saw an MBNA donor contribution that he didn’t love (like in 2008 when he sold all future generations out for a $250,000 payout from MBNA).
I just don’t see how real estate wealth translates to industry. In general, many of Trump’s areas don’t fully align with the Republican establishment who, in my observation, generally are from real estate, energy, and industry as you mentioned.
Thinking about it more, it seems like real estate has a lot of overlap in both parties.
Trump obviously comes from real estate, but his current money-making on a direct level is decidedly media-driven. The question is who gives him money and who benefits from his policy, and I think the answer is that he has a relatively larger amount of support from the petite bourgeois.
Yeah that’s true. They found a cash cow in him, though I’d still consider him an outsider (especially after his political capital has been used up).
High fixed capital
Neoliberalism is exactly the economic policies of fascism. Just because they have “civility” aesthetics doesn’t change that
This is your feeling, no fact.
It is a fact that the economic policies of Nazi Germany were mass privatization and public-private partnerships, both of which are the hallmarks of neoliberal policy. Your denial of this is factless. Not that it matters to you, because you don’t care about facts. You’re just an empty headed smuglord with Facts and Logic™ aesthetics
Both are fascist, the only difference is where the fascism is pointed. That’s why you’ll see a lot of fake leftists support Biden, because they don’t care about the world all they care about are themselves.
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Your definition of fascism is hilariously wrong
What is the lesser evil when both the DNC and the GOP work directly for the exact same military industrial complex?
If you can have that plus corrupt democracy in America or that plus outright fascism in America, I’m not seeing how the choice is difficult.
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It’s a bipolar world buddy and your mind and body is sport for the hunters lol
Genocide Joe feeling the heat in the polls.
Genocidin’ Biden.
I get why - congress is increasingly useless - but there’s obvious accountability problems there.
Accountability problems with funneling infinite weapons to an Apartheid settler state? No way, the US has a high degree of integrity about such things
Yeah, name 50 times we’ve ever done that specific crime!
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Well that’s not suspicious at all.
We live in a democracy
And other lies we tell ourselves.
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- George Costanza
Spineless, pathetic cowardice. I mean we already knew that about Democrats but this just indicts the entire administration as such. Israel makes no apologies for their slaughter, they just don’t give a shit, but this means that Genocide Joe and Co. KNOW this is wrong and they’ll still bend over backwards just to kill a foreigner.
Zero attempts at “harm reduction” pfff, they’re actively taking steps to make the harm (literal bombing of children) worse. I live in a swing state, so when I throw my vote away I’ll get to feel proud knowing it was worth even more. Glory to the martyrs and may “Israel” and her American dog be annihilated.
Oh cool modern day Iran-Contra is gonna happen but with more genocide
This is taxation without representation
Which shows you America Is ran by foreign interests.
Biden said something like: “If there was no Israel, we’d have to invent it.”
The US loves having a highly militarized, violent, totally amoral and 100% US-dependent proxy next to all those oil fields. The last thing the US wants is peace in the middle east. This is just divide-and-conquer 101.
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Other way around. Israel is a us proxy state
He really does think this is his holy mission to bring about the yadda yadda biblical prophecy huh?
Which is super weird because he’s catholic and we don’t really, uh, follow the book of revelations. That weird ass prophecy is a Baptist thing
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You getting downvoted for refusing to vote for Biden for a very valid reason is proof of how broken our two-party system is. This is why every state needs to pass ranked-choice voting. Maine did it and proved it could be done, and now they get to vote for who they actually /want/ without having their vote “spoiled”.
Everyone in the US should be working to get ranked-choice voting in their state.
Whoever you vote for will support Israel. US ally and all.
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That’ll show 'em.
And then nobody becomes president.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Spoiler alert: This would have most likely happened regardless of the D or R next to the president’s name on the ballot.
There’s two reasons I could see the US supporting Israel regardless of who’s in charge: the logical one because it has historical precedent is that the US wants Israel as a buffer for Russia due to it’s strategic location in the Middle-East, and the other reason is more conspiracy theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if the US can somehow get access to Palestine’s oil if Israel beats the shit out of the Hamas.
Palestine doesn’t have any oil. There’s some offshore deposits in the Mediterranean but Israel already has full access to those.
Wee! We get full harm because you only want perfection at all times with no effort at all! Woohoo!
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I really hope your 2016 vote went to an independent, then. I’m having a hard time seeing how Trump would ever do either of those things. Granted, he might thumbs-up an ethnic cleansing if it meant remaining in power.
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So fucking stupid and short-sighted.
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“Things aren’t going how I like when I vote, so now i will encourage everyone to not vote to improve the chances that things will change the way I want them to”
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I let perfect be the enemy of good.
I’m doing my part, for the Republicans!
People are always ready with some morality test but the cold hard truth is trying to enforce your absolutes on others is not going to work out. It just backs you into a corner supporting a turd sandwich. Compromises suck though. Can’t have that. You do you.
Go back to Reddit if you want pats on the back for not voting or voting for someone that wants to strip human rights.
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It’s more that you talk like nobody else is against genocide. Nobody here wants genocide. Your “solution” is just a nothing burger. The reality is every government is pretty fucked up, some more than others. There’s no way to change the whole world order, so you try make it as less shit for as many people as possible, not just throw your hands up and say “I’m done with voting”.
Dear young people, “Don’t Vote” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=t0e9guhV35o
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yay harm increases! Apathy means innocence.
You dropped this /s
How is Biden a warmonger?
Did you forget his term as VP?
I too welcome our next Republican overlord.
It’s no different.
The Party does what The Party does.
That’s why I’m shifting to voting for Republicans. Only one way to accelerate the enshittification of politics and that’s by electing religious nutcases that will enforce their system on everyone.
Why do we want to accelerate it again? Honestly seems like some Russian “Keep America busy and out of conflicts” plan. I’d rather not vote in a group that will also make it harder to fix anything without a second civil war.
Mostly I’m just tired of smoothbrains complaining about the president when they are probably doing jack shit to change FPTP voting at their local, county and state levels. I know for some folks sarcasm doesn’t come across too clearly on the Internet.
Small steps, if a few big swing vote states move away from FPTP then we may see a paradigm shift in the national political system of the USA
Being disappointed by one party then immediately latching onto the teat of the other party is exactly what The Party raised you to do.
Congrats on being a top notch removed.
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Who do you vote? The murderer or the rapist?
Neither. You don’t vote for either. That is the answer.
Then you spend 4 years roasting the imbeciles who installed the murderer/rapist as their leader.
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Who is more self righteous?
The man who refuses to vote for the one aggressively funding genocide or the one who martyrs the world on the guy who is aggressively funding genocide because he is “the lesser evil.”
That’s right, All Israeli citizens are culpable for the bombing Gazan civilians. Therefore they are all valid targets to stop genocide.
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Why stop at here? They also want to let Russia destroy Ukraine. Both parties are going to support a genocide. Hell isn’t Republican supporting both?
Nah man Russia is kind of old news, arguably there was a build up from years ago, and yeah feelings change over time, but if you ask me, nobody really needs to suffer…
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Just leave the president box blank then. Or find an independent who aligns with your values. Make your voice heard.
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Trump hates Netanyahu. He’s a fascist, but even he could see that Israel had no intentions of ever peaceably resolving the conflict.
There is no world in which trump would side with Palestine over Israel.
I don’t like this trend! War movies in 10-20 years will be boring. No Rambos, no Schwarzeneggers, no Spielberg and Tom Hanks emotional patriotism! No funny casual racism, no casual homophobia, no casual misoginy… Did Mark Hamil play a terrorist in Star Trek after all? The End of an Era. We’re gonna have to watch films about how a bribed White House politicant struggles to keep up with weapon manufacture demands while managing to convince his wife not to divorce him because she feels neglected since he’s never at home… directed by Clint Eastwood.
That’s boring. I’m out!
We’re just going to get Don’t Mess With the Zohan 2 but in a ‘shoot then cry’ kind of way
