u/NvMe_24 - originally from r/GenZhou
from the discord:
We here at r/GenZedong are Communists. This is the primary position all our moderators have, and we hope, a vast majority of our userbase has as well.Communists are anti-war. The saying “no war but class war” doesn’t exist for no reason. We are not “pro-Russian”, but pro-peace and anti-imperialism. We hope for the conflict to end as soon as possible, and we hope for it to end diplomatically. This is a basic stance the mod team has stood unified behind for weeks.Unfortunately, it seems that much of our userbase has forgotten this basic stance of communists, essential as it has been to the movement for over a century. We must encourage all communists to remember our roots as a movement; Peace, land, and bread was the leading slogan of Lenin and the Bolsheviks, and we would do well remember this. We do not advocate for Russia, or for Ukraine, but for the working people of both states, the people harmed by this war.As communists, we would do well to remember that Russia is not our friend. A useful situational ally, perhaps, but no comrades of ours. They are not communists, merely conservative nationalists from a state opposing the west. Their desires are not the same as ours, even if our short term objectives may sometimes align. Their state media are not mouthpieces of our movement, but of their government, and it would be a great error for us to forget this.Ukraine and Russia are both bourgeois states, each lead by nationalists and kleptocrats, seeking to exploit their people. In war between bourgeois states, the correct stance is revolutionary defeatism; seek the defeat of your state in order to create the conditions for a revolution.
Unfortunately, the administrators have a point in quarantining our subreddit for misinformation; Indeed, we of the mod team have had to remove several highly upvoted posts for being outright fabricated, which is unfortunate. Going forward, we hope our users will do better in vetting the sources of their posts.Going forward, we will be removing posts supportive of the war in Ukraine, along with posts from sources of questionable veracity. It is our hope that, perhaps, the subreddit will survive this quarantine.- The GenZedong mod team
later another mod on discord posted this
Since it seems that RedstarXtreme has decided to be a child about this, he has gone and demodded me from the subreddit. Every single moderator voted in favor of this statement except for him. It seems we are no longer affiliated with r/GenZedong
there are a decent number of people who also agree with redstarxtreme equally so honestly its best that you take a read in the comments section
on the subreddit as a whole i cannot say, but the general census is that nobody wants the community to split into a hundred factions and libs are now having the time of their lives saying “told you so that this will happen! you’ll just break down into tiny groups!”
u/JDSweetBeat - originally from r/GenZhou
The reason for this split is so g*ddamn fucking stupid. These stated positions are vague to the point of literally not even being f*cking contradictory. It’s so infuriating that some mods have decided to ignore democratic consensus and split the community.
Like, holy shit, if the Discord mods are being honest here (no reason to doubt them given that RedStar hasn’t apparently bothered to issue any response to the claims of the Discord mods), how much of a fucking irredeemable narcissist do you have to be to ignore consensus and split the sub?
u/The_Monocle_Debacle - originally from r/GenZhou
Misinformation now means “runs contrary to the accepted western imperial narrative” not anything to do with actual evidence of veracity
u/Wiwwil - originally from r/GenZhou
When the west believes blindly Snake island, the ghost of Kiev and many other bullshit from their media, it can’t be more true
u/Graf_zur_See - originally from r/GenZhou
“Misinformation” lmao. I was banned for 7 days from the sub for that, because i cited a Western source about the US Intelligence claiming the Russians lost 7k soldiers. Where the FUCK is that “Misinformation”?! For me it seems like either the mods want to drag the oncoming ban on to allow more people to switch to Lemmygrad (hopefully) or they want to wash the backs of the admins, in order to get the sub back. Either way: “Misinformation” my arse
u/applejuice72 - originally from r/GenZhou
Yeah this is totally just a front to keep things moving for now. I dont think I saw a ton of spread of purposeful misinformation as I saw so much of just information being thrown out. We live in an age of information warfare. Information is a currency and a commodity in and of itself. There really is no such thing as misinformation so long as it is blatant or patently false.
As a platform that is run by alphabet groups with ties to the uhhh cardinal direction group that represents a military alliance who if you mention that specific connection you get the bloody axe from reddit (which I recommend keeping hush hush with the upmost importance) their version of “misinformation” is just whatever runs against the narrative of the West itself.
So with that said, there wasn’t a lot of things that were 100% verifiably disproven, just not things that were “state-approved facts and narratives” being promoted in GenZ. So idk who wrote that hunk of garbage and I saw things with my own two eyes that can never be taken away nor shown to be “misinformation.” Sure yeah Russia is managing their own propaganda war, but they aren’t making “Ghost of Sevastopol” claims and nor are they engaged in total warfare on that scale in Ukraine.
u/Tashathar - originally from r/GenZhou
I’m sure the Russian government is doing something, but considering there’s no “glorious war” shit from the Russian side (that I saw) and Kadyrov is seemingly posting half the footage that’s out there, they doesn’t seem to be waging information warfare.
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhou
I think a huge reason for the quarantines are the posts about biological weapon labs in Ukraine that were almost completely unsubstantiated.
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhou
Oh right, the US DoD is funding 20+ biolabs studying dangerous pathogens like Anthrax and botulin in a foreign country engaged in a civil war and ruled by neonazis, but its all for medical research, trust me bro.
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhou
Also, Victoria Nuland said she “is worried that those labs may fall in russian hands”. If its just medical research why be concerned huh?
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhou
You’re welcome to have your conspiracy theories and I recognize that the US has given you plenty of reason to, but the fact is there is no evidence indicating that the US is developing biological weapons in Ukraine. That makes it misinformation.
Beside that point, I could ask the same question regarding the placement of the labs. If the US were developing biological weapons, I would posit that they would almost certainly be doing so on US soil. You really think they’d risk the Ukrainians turning against them?
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhou
That entire interview basically affirms everything I have said. She clarifies that there are biological research facilities, that nothing nefarious is happening at them, and that the comments by Victoria Nuland are referring more generally to the safe handling of biological testing components.
Rubio literally references the comment that /u/SaddamHussein24 quoted for further clarification, and Haines explains it well.
there is no evidence indicating that the US is developing biological weapons in Ukraine
What is wrong with you? Under what conditions would it make sense for the US government to fund and collaboratively operate biolabs in Ukraine, at the border of Russia, after a coup that was pretty clearly infiltrated by US interests, that ultimately brought neo-nazis into a legitimate role in the state?
What capabilities could they possibly have in Ukraine that don’t exist elsewhere and aren’t besieged by violent threats to both operations and to infrastructure and to supply chain?
The only thing Ukraine has going for it is that it’s not on US soil, is willing to absolve the US of any wrongdoings in order to get into NATO, and there’s already an active espionage infrastructure in place including CIA black sites.
If they’re not developing bioweapons, then they’re either operating a red herring or they’re operating the most ham-fisted “cancer research” lab ever concocted.
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhou
First of all, plausible reasons why something may exist is not the same thing as evidence for it existing.
Hasn’t the last 2 years of C19 highlighted a good reason for biological research facilities to exist around the world? The US has labs of that very sort in 25 countries around the world, the only reason Ukraine is presently highlighted is because they’re involved in a war.
The fact that it’s funded by the DOD is something I was made aware of only by this thread, and it does cast suspicion as to the intented purpose of the lab, but again: that is not the same thing as evidence.
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhou
Our analysis should be somewhere in between these two positions and constantly changing as the conditions in that region are drastically changing from day to day. As Communists, we should stand in solidarity of the working class first and foremost and reject bourgeois war. Period. Putin is an Oligarch and anti-Lenin. At the same time, we can also recognize the hand that US-Imperialism has had in that region for decades and as recent as 2014. I’d rather focus on the former.
u/TowerOfGoats - originally from r/GenZhou
I completely agree, but I’d rather focus on the latter. I don’t live in Russia, I live in the USA. US Imperialism is far more relevant to my life and should be my point of attack. The most effective thing I can do to bring piece to region is push my government to talk to Russia, acknowledge security needs, and roll back or abolish NATO.
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhou
Absolutely comrade, we must practice revolutionary defeatism however we must be careful it doesn’t contribute to pro-Putin/Russian rhetoric. It’s a very fine line and we have to walk it delicately.
u/AnkanBasu - originally from r/GenZhou
Putin is an oligarch, yes. But he’s also someone who has maintained good relationship with AES states and states which suffered due to western aggression and has provided them with military or humanitarian support. If I know that then, I have no issue in critically supporting him in these areas and to the legitimate security concerns of Russia. It’s a childish mentality to outright oppose someone just because they don’t agree to you on each and every step.
If someone wants to criticise him isolating from these areas then be my guest but don’t be an idiot by opposing him and when (I hope not) Russia succumbs to West be surprised that Western hegemony will now go unchecked. No matter how much you think China can deter them, it can’t do that alone.
he’s also someone who has maintained good relationship with AES states and states which suffered due to western aggression and has provided them with military or humanitarian support.
Both these statements can be true, Comrade.
The point I was intending on conveying in my post is that we must have a complexes nuanced analysis which allows for both Anti-US/NATO Imperialism and anti-bourgeois, anti-Capitalist sentiment.
No one should be outright apposing or defending Putin as a person, or any person/State for that matter. We must separate the actions from the person/State and support the actions that align with Communist ideals and reject/criticize actions that threaten Communist ideals.
u/AnkanBasu - originally from r/GenZhou
Oh i misread your intention then(sorry about that.) It’s just that i don’t agree with this discord mods position (i would like to expand on it but people on the main sub have already done that) and i thought you were on board with the same thought
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhou
Perfectly fine. I think this speaks to the very cause of the split on this sub and the general issue with online discourse. There’s an intention and a perspective that we are attempting to convey but it’s difficult to do that in short comments, especially when we don’t know each other. We need to give each other more grace but it’s hard when we have a righteous attitude about these subjects, rightfully so.
u/poeiradasestrelas - originally from r/GenZhou
This stance is different to what used to be posted there. There was a lot of Good vs Evil narrative in this war
u/kittyabbygirl - originally from r/GenZhou
I got banned from the subreddit for having this exact same position, but it gives me hope that the discord (which I never ended up joining) can recognize that immediate peace and the end of civilian deaths is a priority above all else.
u/NvMe_24 - originally from r/GenZhoufrom the discord:
later another mod on discord posted this
u/LeftConnoisseur - originally from r/GenZhouWhat about the subreddits’ position?
u/NvMe_24 - originally from r/GenZhouhere is redstarxtreme’s message about it
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/tluuv5/genzedong_moderator_statement_on_the_quarantine/
there are a decent number of people who also agree with redstarxtreme equally so honestly its best that you take a read in the comments section
on the subreddit as a whole i cannot say, but the general census is that nobody wants the community to split into a hundred factions and libs are now having the time of their lives saying “told you so that this will happen! you’ll just break down into tiny groups!”
u/JDSweetBeat - originally from r/GenZhouThe reason for this split is so g*ddamn fucking stupid. These stated positions are vague to the point of literally not even being f*cking contradictory. It’s so infuriating that some mods have decided to ignore democratic consensus and split the community.
Like, holy shit, if the Discord mods are being honest here (no reason to doubt them given that RedStar hasn’t apparently bothered to issue any response to the claims of the Discord mods), how much of a fucking irredeemable narcissist do you have to be to ignore consensus and split the sub?
u/The_Monocle_Debacle - originally from r/GenZhouNobody elected mods to run a Vichy sub on its death bed
u/honeyfuckles- - originally from r/GenZhouWould you happen to know some of the highly upvoted misinformation posts?
u/The_Monocle_Debacle - originally from r/GenZhouMisinformation now means “runs contrary to the accepted western imperial narrative” not anything to do with actual evidence of veracity
u/Wiwwil - originally from r/GenZhouWhen the west believes blindly Snake island, the ghost of Kiev and many other bullshit from their media, it can’t be more true
u/The_Monocle_Debacle - originally from r/GenZhouYeah it’s literally just “bad information” as a value judgement
u/DoktorElmo - originally from r/GenZhouTbf snake island and ghost of kyiv were both later corrected in the MSM (at least the ones I read).
u/Wiwwil - originally from r/GenZhouDoesn’t matter, the damage was done and they never got censored for misinformation. It always goes one side.
u/Graf_zur_See - originally from r/GenZhou“Misinformation” lmao. I was banned for 7 days from the sub for that, because i cited a Western source about the US Intelligence claiming the Russians lost 7k soldiers. Where the FUCK is that “Misinformation”?! For me it seems like either the mods want to drag the oncoming ban on to allow more people to switch to Lemmygrad (hopefully) or they want to wash the backs of the admins, in order to get the sub back. Either way: “Misinformation” my arse
u/applejuice72 - originally from r/GenZhouYeah this is totally just a front to keep things moving for now. I dont think I saw a ton of spread of purposeful misinformation as I saw so much of just information being thrown out. We live in an age of information warfare. Information is a currency and a commodity in and of itself. There really is no such thing as misinformation so long as it is blatant or patently false.
As a platform that is run by alphabet groups with ties to the uhhh cardinal direction group that represents a military alliance who if you mention that specific connection you get the bloody axe from reddit (which I recommend keeping hush hush with the upmost importance) their version of “misinformation” is just whatever runs against the narrative of the West itself.
So with that said, there wasn’t a lot of things that were 100% verifiably disproven, just not things that were “state-approved facts and narratives” being promoted in GenZ. So idk who wrote that hunk of garbage and I saw things with my own two eyes that can never be taken away nor shown to be “misinformation.” Sure yeah Russia is managing their own propaganda war, but they aren’t making “Ghost of Sevastopol” claims and nor are they engaged in total warfare on that scale in Ukraine.
u/Tashathar - originally from r/GenZhouI’m sure the Russian government is doing something, but considering there’s no “glorious war” shit from the Russian side (that I saw) and Kadyrov is seemingly posting half the footage that’s out there, they doesn’t seem to be waging information warfare.
u/NvMe_24 - originally from r/GenZhouno idea, haven’t seen them myself since im not too active this past week
u/BreadDaddyLenin - originally from r/GenZhouonly one I can think of is posting like, literal staged PR videos from Russian military
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouI think a huge reason for the quarantines are the posts about biological weapon labs in Ukraine that were almost completely unsubstantiated.
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhouUnsubstantiated? The US literally admitted to having biolabs in Ukraine LOL
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouThere’s a difference between a biolab and a biological weapons facility.
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhouOh right, the US DoD is funding 20+ biolabs studying dangerous pathogens like Anthrax and botulin in a foreign country engaged in a civil war and ruled by neonazis, but its all for medical research, trust me bro.
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouDo you have a source for the active study of Anthrax and Botulinum?
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhouAlso, Victoria Nuland said she “is worried that those labs may fall in russian hands”. If its just medical research why be concerned huh?
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouYou’re welcome to have your conspiracy theories and I recognize that the US has given you plenty of reason to, but the fact is there is no evidence indicating that the US is developing biological weapons in Ukraine. That makes it misinformation.
Beside that point, I could ask the same question regarding the placement of the labs. If the US were developing biological weapons, I would posit that they would almost certainly be doing so on US soil. You really think they’d risk the Ukrainians turning against them?
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhouI literally sent you the evidence bruh. Cant you see it?
u/HotMinimum26 - originally from r/GenZhouhttps://youtu.be/2lUt6DMfrBg
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouThat entire interview basically affirms everything I have said. She clarifies that there are biological research facilities, that nothing nefarious is happening at them, and that the comments by Victoria Nuland are referring more generally to the safe handling of biological testing components.
Rubio literally references the comment that /u/SaddamHussein24 quoted for further clarification, and Haines explains it well.
u/SaddamHussein24 - originally from r/GenZhouIve tried sending you the links 2 times, they get autodeleted. Youll have to research it yourself mate
u/FaustTheBird - originally from r/GenZhouWhat is wrong with you? Under what conditions would it make sense for the US government to fund and collaboratively operate biolabs in Ukraine, at the border of Russia, after a coup that was pretty clearly infiltrated by US interests, that ultimately brought neo-nazis into a legitimate role in the state?
What capabilities could they possibly have in Ukraine that don’t exist elsewhere and aren’t besieged by violent threats to both operations and to infrastructure and to supply chain?
The only thing Ukraine has going for it is that it’s not on US soil, is willing to absolve the US of any wrongdoings in order to get into NATO, and there’s already an active espionage infrastructure in place including CIA black sites.
If they’re not developing bioweapons, then they’re either operating a red herring or they’re operating the most ham-fisted “cancer research” lab ever concocted.
u/roosterkun - originally from r/GenZhouFirst of all, plausible reasons why something may exist is not the same thing as evidence for it existing.
Hasn’t the last 2 years of C19 highlighted a good reason for biological research facilities to exist around the world? The US has labs of that very sort in 25 countries around the world, the only reason Ukraine is presently highlighted is because they’re involved in a war.
The fact that it’s funded by the DOD is something I was made aware of only by this thread, and it does cast suspicion as to the intented purpose of the lab, but again: that is not the same thing as evidence.
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhouOur analysis should be somewhere in between these two positions and constantly changing as the conditions in that region are drastically changing from day to day. As Communists, we should stand in solidarity of the working class first and foremost and reject bourgeois war. Period. Putin is an Oligarch and anti-Lenin. At the same time, we can also recognize the hand that US-Imperialism has had in that region for decades and as recent as 2014. I’d rather focus on the former.
u/TowerOfGoats - originally from r/GenZhouI completely agree, but I’d rather focus on the latter. I don’t live in Russia, I live in the USA. US Imperialism is far more relevant to my life and should be my point of attack. The most effective thing I can do to bring piece to region is push my government to talk to Russia, acknowledge security needs, and roll back or abolish NATO.
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhouAbsolutely comrade, we must practice revolutionary defeatism however we must be careful it doesn’t contribute to pro-Putin/Russian rhetoric. It’s a very fine line and we have to walk it delicately.
u/AnkanBasu - originally from r/GenZhouPutin is an oligarch, yes. But he’s also someone who has maintained good relationship with AES states and states which suffered due to western aggression and has provided them with military or humanitarian support. If I know that then, I have no issue in critically supporting him in these areas and to the legitimate security concerns of Russia. It’s a childish mentality to outright oppose someone just because they don’t agree to you on each and every step.
If someone wants to criticise him isolating from these areas then be my guest but don’t be an idiot by opposing him and when (I hope not) Russia succumbs to West be surprised that Western hegemony will now go unchecked. No matter how much you think China can deter them, it can’t do that alone.
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhouAnd
Both these statements can be true, Comrade.
The point I was intending on conveying in my post is that we must have a complexes nuanced analysis which allows for both Anti-US/NATO Imperialism and anti-bourgeois, anti-Capitalist sentiment.
No one should be outright apposing or defending Putin as a person, or any person/State for that matter. We must separate the actions from the person/State and support the actions that align with Communist ideals and reject/criticize actions that threaten Communist ideals.
Comradely
u/AnkanBasu - originally from r/GenZhouOh i misread your intention then(sorry about that.) It’s just that i don’t agree with this discord mods position (i would like to expand on it but people on the main sub have already done that) and i thought you were on board with the same thought
u/1catcherintherye8 - originally from r/GenZhouPerfectly fine. I think this speaks to the very cause of the split on this sub and the general issue with online discourse. There’s an intention and a perspective that we are attempting to convey but it’s difficult to do that in short comments, especially when we don’t know each other. We need to give each other more grace but it’s hard when we have a righteous attitude about these subjects, rightfully so.
u/poeiradasestrelas - originally from r/GenZhouThis stance is different to what used to be posted there. There was a lot of Good vs Evil narrative in this war
u/kittyabbygirl - originally from r/GenZhouI got banned from the subreddit for having this exact same position, but it gives me hope that the discord (which I never ended up joining) can recognize that immediate peace and the end of civilian deaths is a priority above all else.
u/thepensiveiguana - originally from r/GenZhouSo they don’t believe in the Leninism of Marxist-Leninism