• loathsome dongeaterA
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    8 hours ago

    I think this framing as “complicit in genocide” is harmful and unfortunately very successful. As I see it Israel is nothing but a proxy for American interests and activities in the surrounding region. It is almostly wholly subsidised, propped up and secured by American aid. If America were to divest itself from Israel, Israel would cease to exist the next day even if assistance from Euroghouls were to continue. America is one doing the genocide.

    • ormr@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      edit-2
      7 hours ago

      No logic in your argument. If American investment in Israel would stop now, of course the country wouldn’t cease to exist. That’s magical thinking. Did the US create the mindsets of orthodox jews, radicalised settlers or right-wing nutjobs serving as long-term PMs?

      Of course not. It’s not untypical. We find this kind of hatred against a neighbor all over the world. In this sense Israel demonstrates very well that they are not a “chosen people” but a horribly regular people.

      • MarxMadness
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 hour ago

        You’re right that if the U.S. stopped sending weapons and money today, Israel would not literally collapse tomorrow. The point is that Israel cannot do its genocide and attack its neighbors without constant U.S. support. They’d be forced to the bargaining table within weeks. If Israel was too stubborn to bargain or its victims were uninterested in negotiations after watching a genocide right in front of them, Israel would lose on the battlefield.

        The collapse wouldn’t happen literally overnight, but it’d be soon and inevitable.

      • loathsome dongeaterA
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        2 hours ago

        We find this kind of hatred against a neighbor all over the world. In this sense Israel demonstrates very well that they are not a “chosen people” but a horribly regular people.

        Israel is an euroamerican settler project. This is not a squabble between neighbours.

        • ormr@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 hour ago

          A squabble like the genocide in Darfur or the genocide in Armenia? What point are you trying to make here?

      • Soul_Greatsword
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        5 hours ago

        The US sees the existence of Israel as strategically important. The constant flow of weapons and other resources into it is clear evidence of this (if the words of it’s leaders somehow wasn’t).

        Before the US it was the UK and for a time even Nazi Germany, albeit before Israel formally existed.

        If the US knew that Israel could fill it’s strategic role without further investment it would transfer those resources to another project. That’s ample evidence that Israel requires these resources.

        The US didn’t create a state governed and populated by radicals, but they required it.

        • ormr@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 hours ago

          Yes I agree with you that Israel requires these resources to continue it’s militaristic course of action with the goal of extermination. If it didn’t have these resources anymore, it wouldn’t cease to exist. It would need to change this course if it wants to survive.

          • Soul_Greatsword
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            44 minutes ago

            Fair point. Such a change of course would likely mean less genocide (although the existence of nuclear weapons makes this somewhat less than guaranteed).

            That said, a less secure Israel might lose a large chunk of it’s population and industry. Many Israelis have dual citizenships that make leaving fairly easy. Israel as we know it could very well collapse.

      • loathsome dongeaterA
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        6 hours ago

        f American investment in Israel would stop now, of course the country wouldn’t cease to exist.

        It would.