A flag concept for a decolonized turtle island - Lemmygrad
lemmygrad.ml
From https://www.reddit.com/r/leftistvexillology/s/TGXLdnZf3S [https://www.reddit.com/r/leftistvexillology/s/TGXLdnZf3S]

I had posted this question today here:

https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/4917359

Also on NATOpedia, there’s some criticism regarding misappropriation of the medicine wheel symbol by the non-Indigenous people. I wonder if anyone here is more well read on the topic to explain about the misappropriation and what a potential Indigenous flag of Turtle Island would like and how it would be better representative of the Native Americans, if it is even possible without distorting their traditions by combining them.

Perhaps when revolution comes and we give the Indigenous people and Blacks have self-determination, maybe they would prefer to be represented as several separate nations/states.

(Edited poor phrasing regarding self-determination)

I am wondering if anyone here, especially if they are Indigenous in America, has more information regarding how the Medicine Wheel has been misappropriated by non-Indigenous and if there is a correct version to use or if using a symbol to represent all Indigenous people of North America is an act of erasure and oversimplification of multiple Indigenous cultures. Do the native peoples want to strive for Pan-Indianism? And if so, what does Pan-Indianism mean to the native peoples and what do they want (and/or not want) from being unified?

I hope I made my questions clear. Please let me know if I should clarify anything.

  • Kaffe
    11·
    24 days ago

    Turtle Island is also a regional cultural concept alongside the Medicine Wheel, though Turtle Island is from a myth and the MW is a religious practice, and while generally respected, does not have meaning for most of the Indigenous peoples of TI. It’s not very representative of a continental movement unless multiple cultural elements from many peoples are being represented (consensually).

    Perhaps when revolution comes and we give the Indigenous people and Blacks self-determination, maybe they would prefer to be represented as several separate nations/states.

    Nobody will be “giving” us anything, you just won’t be able to tell us what to do anymore.

    Do the native peoples want to strive for Pan-Indianism? And if so, what does Pan-Indianism mean to the native peoples and what do they want (and/or not want) from being unified?

    Unity is a tool, a means to an end. It is not an end in itself. This question is too abstract to provide meaningful discussion unless you are attempting solve a specific issue, like defending a resource from exploitation or extirpation.

    Something like pan-Africanism can be spoken about more broadly because African states are mostly run by Africans themselves, unity would be a specific tool to prevent continued exploitation of the continent as a whole.

    So I guess the question is why are we trying to build an identity around a unity practice that does not exist? Detached from practice it comes off incoherent, at best. AIMs symbolism is also subject to criticism from the masses AIM operated in, and its successors seek to operate in. Inform yourself with the masses, test, criticize, change, cycle.

    I think that sub would do better focusing on the history of existing flags or editing flags of existing movements given their conditions.

    • ImnecomradeOPEnglish
      3·
      24 days ago

      Perhaps when revolution comes and we give the Indigenous people and Blacks self-determination, maybe they would prefer to be represented as several separate nations/states.

      Nobody will be “giving” us anything, you just won’t be able to tell us what to do anymore.

      I apologize. That was poor wording. I agree with you.

      Do the native peoples want to strive for Pan-Indianism? And if so, what does Pan-Indianism mean to the native peoples and what do they want (and/or not want) from being unified?

      Unity is a tool, a means to an end. It is not an end in itself. This question is too abstract to provide meaningful discussion unless you are attempting solve a specific issue, like defending a resource from exploitation or extirpation.

      Something like pan-Africanism can be spoken about more broadly because African states are mostly run by Africans themselves, unity would be a specific tool to prevent continued exploitation of the continent as a whole.

      So I guess the question is why are we trying to build an identity around a unity practice that does not exist? Detached from practice it comes off incoherent, at best. AIMs symbolism is also subject to criticism from the masses AIM operated in, and its successors seek to operate in. Inform yourself with the masses, test, criticize, change, cycle.

      This itself is an answer I was looking for, as I suspected my question was very abstract. I don’t know much about Pan-Indianism and whether continental unity is desired among the Indigenous. I know that treaties need to be respected for once, and the Native Americans and Blacks deserve self-determination and reparations according to their desired form of payment. My interpretation would be that pan-Indianism, if and under the consensus of the Indigenous, would be used as a tool to stop overall exploitation and colonialism as with pan-Africanism, but I wasn’t sure if this would the chosen tool by the Indigenous and if it was really coherently practiced and desired.

      Are there any good resources regarding this topic so I can better inform myself? I was also considering looking for Indigenous communities to learn about their traditions.

      • Kaffe
        8·
        24 days ago

        Look for the Indigenous peoples who or once were living in your immediate realm. Find their names, then search for their website.

        In my profile there’s a mega link to the Chunka Luta Library, you can peruse that for texts but the required section should pass enough information to get an idea of the movement’s past.

        • ImnecomradeOPEnglish
          3·
          24 days ago

          Wow, I missed the link on your profile. That’s very helpful. Thank you very much.

    • Erika3sis [she/her, xe/xem]@hexbear.netEnglish
      3·
      24 days ago

      AIMs symbolism is also subject to criticism from the masses AIM operated in, and its successors seek to operate in.

      Do you have anything more specific to say about this, or anywhere I could find out more about this?