Basically dress up the economics as futurism instead of tankie shit with its associations.

Marx said we should hold the means of production in common, and follow a socially beneficial plan. But a lot of audiences would roll their eyes and close their ears as soon as I said Marx.

If instead I say, “Artificial intelligence and computerised logistics are becoming so sophisticated we can think about phasing out the human element of management. We can choose democratically what we want the robots to do and they will produce it for us.”

This might sound like subterfuge to some of you, but it’s not actually dishonest. It’s a correct way to describe a Marxian economy. I replaced the phrase “the means of production” with “the robots”.

The real win here is you get around “It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.” People don’t expect a Marxist world revolution. People don’t expect the fall of capitalism. But people totally do expect robots and AI in the coming decades.

  • bleepingblorp
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    6 months ago

    Before I start, context: I am a USian, so what I say applies to typical Amerikkkan sentiments, but is possibly easily reproducible to the material conditions of a number of comrades here. With that said:

    I feel like this might lead them closer to the Elon Musk camp more than anything. The whole “technology will save us all!” kinda thing. This method of framing things - like many comrades have pointed out - neglects to answer questions regarding imperialism, racism, class antagonisms, class solidarity, redistribution of wealth, etc.

    When talking to people who are reflexively unfriendly toward communism, socialism, Marxism, etc., I just avoid using the commie buzzwords like “bourgeoisie”, “proletariat”, “means of production”, etc.

    Instead I’ll start with first establishing some concepts, like the labor theory of value, using an apple tree analogy I once heard (it basically goes like, "simply owning an apple tree doesn’t do anyone any good, rather someone has to work on that tree to care for it, harvest the apples, then distribute them, same thing for a factory). While doing this, I’ll stoke the common idea that the rich CEOs don’t do shit for their money.

    Then once I do that, I establish that the owning/owner class is like someone who has an apple tree but puts no work into it, and the working class as the person they “hired” on threat of starvation to work their “apple tree” (the factories, offices, etc).

    I’ll also make sure to point out that yes, while politicians are one enemy, who bribes them and lobbies them and pays for their campaigns? I’ll also introduce the idea of Tweedism, which is that no matter who the working class vote for, the owning class always win since they nominate the election choices using their money. This is why it never seems to change anything whenever the other party takes over, even with supermajorities.

    Once I establish the differences between the working class, the owning class, and their political puppets, I then move on to the need to stand alongside other working class people abroad, and with others with a different skin color, ethnicity, religion, etc. I point out all the things we have in common with them, such as a desire to live a peaceful life with a family. I point out that they, like us, are constantly being lied to by the owning class factions of their countries (or the same owning class factions when talking about domestic ““others””) and that division only serves the owning class.

    This stage may take the longest to get through, since you’ll often need to explore the ideas behind the roots of crime, inter-generational poverty, feminism (might need to avoid that word depending on your audience though), war, etc. It is good to remember that you can’t reach everyone with every concept though, so it is important to know your audience here. You may need to speak around the issue in an indirect way to whittle and chip away at the foundations of whatever brand of reactionary thought you are dealing with so that when you hit them with the “at the end of the day black folks want the same things as white folks: to have a happy life with their family and friends” they don’t give you the shocked lib face. At the core of anger is fear.

    When revisiting the ideas of the inefficacy of working within the Amerikkkan democracy (or insert your own country’s bourgeois democracy, but I avoid using the buzzwords), I remind folks of Tweedism (electoral choices are predetermined by owning class money) and that voting rarely, if ever, really leads to change. If someone is going to participate, the local level will have the best effects (though if someone is still very reactionary at this point I don’t encourage this since it also means they can still do damage to their local communities are harm local communist efforts). At the end though, peace won’t bring about anything meaningful and impactful at scale. Note: with some audiences you may never be able to get to this point, since you are directly or indirectly advocating for the violent overthrow of the government. Know your audience. I’ll say that again: know. your. audience. Do not put yourself too far into the crosshairs. You could get yourself fired at work, arrested, harassed, killed, etc depending on the whims of reactionary forces and the ruling class.

    So yeah, basically, break it down barney style. Don’t use big words, because if they don’t immediately hate you for being a commie then they’ll hate you for sounding smug or best case you’ll confuse people. Define those buzzwords only for the most receptive of your friends and family, those who are actually going to read, or better yet are already reading, Marxist literature. Talk in the lingo of your audience. Before people can embrace AES states, you’ll need to undo the brainwashing liberalisms to pull the away from that first, after which you can then turn them toward the answer slowly, once they realize liberalism and all its baggage ain’t it.

    Hope this helps.

    • Imnecomrade
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      6 months ago

      Solid answer with great advice, I wish I could give you more upvotes.

      • bleepingblorp
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        6 months ago

        Thank you comrade, it means a lot none the less and I definitely appreciate the feedback. I am always worried I’ll come across the wrong way, especially when I make slightly longer posts.

        • Imnecomrade
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          6 months ago

          Same, as I am still a “socialist padawan”, but I believe you were spot on, and I will be keeping your advice in mind when I have conversations with people about similar topics. I get nervous about coming the wrong way, too, which is why I edit my comments a lot to make sure I don’t come across as offensive or reactionary by accident. I am a USian, myself, but I try to be considerate and open to ideas from people from all sorts of backgrounds and cultures.

        • Imnecomrade
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          6 months ago

          Nah, I don’t want to abuse the voting system. I prefer to give only one vote as one person. Unlike the undemocratic US where corporations get an extra vote and money is the actual deciding factor of a candidate winning, as long as they are neoliberal and decided upon the ruling class.