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Joined 5 years ago
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Cake day: October 21st, 2020

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  • mrshll1001toComradeship // Freechat*Permanently Deleted*
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    2 years ago

    If you find any good literature around how Worker co-ops can fit into a broader class struggle please let me know! All of my analysis is based on first-hand experience of working in a worker co-op since 2018 and being involved with my local Communist Party since 2017, which is likely only a piece of the wider puzzle since all co-ops are different and the material conditions of each country are different as well.

    I’m very keen to learn if there are explicit strategies around better utilising co-operatives in class struggle and if there are tools/techniques for avoiding the pitfalls I’ve described.


  • mrshll1001toComradeship // Freechat*Permanently Deleted*
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    2 years ago

    Good question. If I’m being honest I haven’t sat down and thoroughly thought about it.

    One of the main contradictions I’ve found inside (worker) co-ops in a Capitalist society is that they need to remain profitable and balance worker compensation/benefits/working conditions. As was pointed out in another thread from a while ago, this means that they need to either be quite niche or need to charge higher prices than the corporate competitors.

    For me and my experience in my co-op (which is successful, but niche); these conditions lend themselves to focusing on sustaining the co-operative first and looking after the workers there. This means distributing surplus effectively in terms of reinvestment into the co-op and also compensating workers via staff benefits, higher salaries, or flexible working conditions. All of this can take energy via decision-making, and co-opreatives are also a little more fragile due to this compared to their competitors generally being able to offer cheaper services with more infrastructure behind them.

    For these reasons, worker co-operatives will generally have a harder time expanding the scope of their benefits outside of their direct membership (and their families). Workers can use the increased flexibility and better working conditions and more stable salary to reinvest their energy elsewhere such as in Parties etc, with the logic being that if you’re not actively fighting against a hostile workspace you might have more energy for the wider struggle. In terms of the co-operative itself, its members can absolutely vote/decide to support and benefit other aspects of the workers’ movements. This can be through financial support, doing pro-bono or reduced-rate work for specific clients (e.g. a co-operative web design agency giving a reduced rate to a Trade Union for designing their website etc), supporting strikes either on the pickets or financially (or even just allowing members to take some discrete time off for these activities if that’s more appropriate to the situation), etc.

    However, as noted, the co-op itself needs to be sustainable financially (and democratically; a lot of co-ops can tear apart due to poor democracy and decision-making processes) and ensure that members continue to want to work for the co-op (despite being niche and successful, our salaries are a lot less than our contemporaries in the mega-corp consultancies because we charge our clients less than them). If those challenges can be managed, I don’t see why a willing and politically-aware co-op can’t benefit workers outside of its immediate membership, but these conditions and concerns mean that I’ve found a worker co-op will generally look after its own first. I don’t think this is a bad thing inherently, but I do think that we can’t rely on worker co-ops as a major tool of the class struggle in the long term.


  • mrshll1001toComradeship // Freechat*Permanently Deleted*
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    2 years ago

    Honestly I think it’ll depend on the members at each different co-op. From my experience, the founders of co-ops tend to be a bit more socialist-leaning in their thinking. As the co-op grows, people who are drawn to the co-op tend to be a bit more inclined towards socialism or progressivism as part of a self-selecting crowd but I think that’s a double-edged sword.

    I’ve found that it’s actually harder, in some ways, to properly radicalise such people because these same people may think of themselves as having a good grasp on politics and economics already. Even if they’re nominally socialist, they still end up being anti-China and parroting US propaganda about AES throughout history, haven’t been involved in Trade Unions or solidarity movements, but have been on a few XR marches etc. A lot of the time others are doing lots of other little things here and there such as working with frontline charities, volunteering, etc. but aren’t involved in a party at all and are not interested in learning about basic Political Economy and just know that “capitalism is bad” but have an idealist view of what a socialist state should look like and lack (or disdain) the analytical tools to understand the compromises various socialist projects have had to make throughout history.

    In addition to this, if workers within a co-operative aren’t regularly touching base with workers in other organisations then it’s easy to become out of touch with those struggles. In a corp, it’s at least clear that the workers producing value have shared interests to organise round getting a better deal and increasing their bargaining power, which can be useful as a vehicle for getting across the Marxist analysis of political economy and thus lead to the analyses of things such as Imperialism and building Socialism, and the need for it. In co-operatives, unless a worker has come from an existing political or trade unionist space then it’s harder to make these cases for the the broader analyses. I have had some success with colleagues discussing the contradictions of a co-op trying to protect working conditions and salary levels while attempting to stay competitive; but a lot of the time this isn’t able to go much further despite my colleagues being patient with their resident Commie.

    Ultimately, running a co-operative takes a lot of work and headspace especially in a direct-governance model. Even the best intentioned can have all their energy absorbed if they’re not careful, so I think while it’s possible to radicalise workers in a co-operative, the material conditions are such that it’s an uphill struggle. Of course, quantity turns into quality. If enough radicalised workers form co-operatives to improve their conditions and then put the machinery of the co-operative to the benefit of the struggle against Capitalism without falling into the trap of “everything should just be a co-op”, then maybe we’ll reach a tipping point!


  • mrshll1001toComradeship // Freechat*Permanently Deleted*
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    2 years ago

    Additional, as I don’t think I made my main point clearly!

    One thing co-ops, mostly worker co-ops, have definitely got going for them is that the surplus capital is mostly put to the benefit of members/workers within the co-operative (after an amount is usually reinvested etc). This means that co-ops, especially worker co-ops, can materially support other aspects of the workers’ movements.

    For me, the main problem is that co-operatives tend to operate either totally isolated for the direct benefit of their small membership or within a loose network of the “co-operative movement”; which cannot solve the inherent contradictions in capitalism and co-operatives are more fragile than super-exploitative capitalist-backed entities.

    It’s a shame when they don’t engender a broader political mindset to their workers, or materially support (ie with labour or with money) other aspects of the struggle such as parties, trade unions, or other political entities.


  • mrshll1001toComradeship // Freechat*Permanently Deleted*
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    2 years ago

    I work in a worker-coop. In short; I enjoy it and they’re neat but not everyone will be a Marxist-Leninist or even a Leftist of any stripe, or else want to engage in the broader workers’ movements or engage with unions. You can get Tories wanting to “own a business” and lots of reactionaries who think they’re super progressive for working inside co-ops.

    It also comes with the whole “co-operative culture” which can tie up a lot of energy and lead to frustration for Marxist-Leninists who want to see their individual and collective resources put to use elsewhere, and there are lots of different sorts of co-ops e.g. workers’, housing, retail, building societies, etc. These are all fine and good for damage control, but often I’ve seen that for a lot of co-operative members the buck stops there and it becomes “everything should be a co-op” before too long, and the effort goes towards building “the co-operative movement” rather than situating co-ops inside the context of class struggle.

    Overall my take on it is similar to what I’ve read from Lenin discussing the need for getting out of a Trade Union mindset and having the vanguard draw together disparate sites of class struggle into a cohesive revolutionary force – co-ops (especially worker co-ops) can be useful as a tool and should be engaged with and used where appropriate. Comrades operating as voting members within co-operatives of all stripes should be seeking to steer their co-operative towards materially supporting other sites of struggle: using surplus to contribute to Communist or Worker parties (not likely, but the dream!) or direct action; similarly supporting Unions, especially contributing towards solidarity funds and strikes; making public statements against Imperialist or Reactionary policies from the government etc.

    Co-operatives, especially tight-knit ones, can be very good at looking after their own members and other co-operatives and I’ve found it a struggle to get mine to engage in other movements. I put my energy into the Party, instead, but I would certainly recommend working inside a co-operative to give you the space to then re-invest in the struggle.


  • I understand that, I suppose it depends on your relationship to your family and how much you’re beholden to them for your personal safety. Since I’m an adult and live independently from them, I would absolutely feel comfortable doing this. My sister has recently become a landlord, and if I hear her say something similar to OP’s mother, or if it appears that she’s mistreating them I have no qualms about explicitly stating she’s in the wrong and openly moving against her.

    If OP is in a more delicate situation wrt their relationship with their parents, then I think there’s scope for quietly (or even anonymously) getting in touch with e.g. renter’s unions and asking a member to reach out the tenant. Or maybe dropping some literature through the door of the property for the tenant to read.


  • Are there any renters unions in your area? Getting the tenant involved with them might help them legally or practically. In the UK, we have Acorn which do a mixture of direct action (ie literally blocking Landlords from accessing the property) and supporting tenants with navigating the legal system and understanding their (somewhat limited) rights as renters.

    If there’s something comparable in your local area, perhaps approach them with the consent of the tenant? If there’s not then perhaps there’s similarly minded people which you can help to start organise and bring into the fold?



  • My partner and I are on the last few days of our Summer Solstice holiday. We hiked up a local mountain with a friend yesterday and today we’re recovering on the sofa from a week of hiking, hill walking, and slightly-too-much food.

    I’m alternating between reading some sci-fi on my e-reader (currently reading Use of Weapons by Iain M. Banks), writing some psuedo-code for a single-user headless ActivityPub server I’m thinking of implementing for fun, and brewing tea. I might watch a movie later, if I get the urge.

    Earlier, as part of a bonus Solstice gift, I set up my partner’s laptop with an N64 emulator, a USB N64-like controller, and some old games she enjoyed as a child so she’s on the other side of the sofa full of nostalgia and smiling, engrossed in her games.

    Our cat is curled up on my feet and stretched out onto my partner’s lap; her favourite cuddle position.


  • mrshll1001toLinux for LeftistsHow did you learn linux?
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    2 years ago

    Mostly just through using it, and via being somewhat passionate/interested in open source stuff at the point I was discovering it, and I continue to learn by just slowly pushing against my comfort zone in certain areas.

    My first Linux install was back 2008, Ubuntu 8.04 “Hardy Heron”, through wubi which meant it easy to bail out if I needed to. I played around with it, got various things working like making sure I could watch YouTube videos (via Flash!), access files on my memory sticks, use OpenOffice, listen to music, torrent stuff etc.

    Eventually I swapped out Wubi for a “proper” dual-boot when I was settled and began living in Ubuntu full-time, other than needing to use Windows XP for syncing my iPod with iTunes (I’ve never really bothered with gaming on PC so it was never a draw to keep Windows). At some point the Windows XP install just seriously borked, no idea why but it ground to a halt. Synced my iPod one last time and wiped it for a full Ubuntu install.

    Ever since then I’ve been a Linux user all through university and into my job. I’ve just gradually learned more and more about doing things in a UNIXy way, picking up bits of the commandline to the point where I’m much more comfortable with keyboards than I am with using a mouse, learning about various system utilities etc.

    I usually think about what problems I have or perhaps what I’ve seen other people do, and then try to find out different ways to achieve that or solve the problem. Usually that takes me on a nice little journey where I get intimidated for a bit, then I digest it and read around, and then I start trying things, and then it clicks. Eventually it’ll get integrated into whatever workflow is appropriate and then it’s on to the next thing when I get that itch or have the headspace to learn some more.


  • I am a worker-member of a (financially) successful worker co-operative in the UK. Basically, the analysis that @CommunistWolf provides is fair and accurate:

    • we are very niche, operating in a niche area of technology with high-paying public sector, charityh sector, and international body clients e.g. the UN, various transparency movements etc.
    • We compete with the mega consultancies e.g. Deloitte who charge more, do poor quality work, pay their “junior/low-grade” workers poorly but also have a highly paid chief-consultant tier who are paid many times the workers in our co-op
    • We have kept wages “low” for our service, in order to sustain the co-operative longer term and we distribute surplus value at the end of the financial year via a payroll “bonus”, subject to our rules that we don’t distribute more than something like 50% of the profits in order to keep an emergency fund for if we’re not profitable for a while, buy some better staff benefits etc.
    • While our wages are substantially lower than those of our corp-sector contempraries, for our service, we’re also more highly paid than a lot of workers. Our current salaries are about £43k and we’ve voted to aim to raise these above inflation towards the £60k mark as part of our next plan to compensate staff fairly and keep them in the co-operative. My romantic partner works just the same hours I do, for a megacorp in the financial sector, with far fewer staff benefits, and is paid a value just over half of my salary.
    • our “social wage” in the co-op is strong working conditions for the most part, although there are some contradictions which are playing out which limit the effectiveness of these. These contradictions are really derived from the fact that we compete on the market, so any worker benefits or flexibility we gain for our staff must be confronted with the material reality we need to bill X amount to clients and meet our running costs. We do have some strong policies which have emerged from our workers such as menstrual leave for women workers, unlimited sick days and bereavement leave (balanced against a long-term sickness policy), flexible working patterns etc.

    In short: I believe co-operatives are a weapon in class war, especially in areas where highly-educated workers can coalesce into pooling group resources, but they are nothing more than a tool and they have their limits and problems. It’s the same as being in a Trade Union; definiteyly don’t discount it and use this as a vehicle for working class politics, but the working class ultimately need a vanguard party drawing together workers from co-operatives, unions, protest movements, etc into a coherent political and revolutionary force.

    One reality I have faced is that worker co-operatives may be approached from many different political angles. We are broadly left leaning in our co-operative, however I am the only Marxist Leninist. There are a few anarchist and socdems, but some of our ex-members were openly Conservative and viewed worker co-operatives as an extension to being “self-employed” or “running a business”, rather than being worker centric. There are also a lot of libs who like co-ops, but also lack the materialist and class analyses of other things and can’t break out of the “everyone should just form a co-op” mentality (note: this is less a reflection of my direct colleagues and more something that becomes apparent when engaging the rest of the worker co-operative or broader co-operative sector)

    I would never discourage comrades or workers from forming co-ops, and my co-op’s structure, democracy, and staff compensation levels have allowed me to frame discussions with non-radicalised friends and colleagues in other organisations to e.g. direct them towards unions or get them to start questioning how the money they make for their corp is a lot more than what they receive in compensation. As noted, they’re a tool for damage control and for demonstrating the labour theory of value and illustrating how corp structures are oppressing even relatively well compensated workers.




  • I haven’t got direct experience of this comrade, but I wanted to respond to your comment as a few things jumped out at me.

    First, I think there may be a contradiction in your comment. At first you said the following:

    I would NEVER do to a woman the shit i’m into

    But then in the next paragraph you say:

    And i genuinely fear that if i try to repress it all, i will eventually lose control.

    From the outside looking in, this implies to me that the former statement is not entirely true, and you foresee some circumstances which may lead to you “losing control”? Does this mean that you acknowledge or believe that you actually could “do to a woman” the things you’re viewing in porn? I would perhaps sit down and think and be very honest with yourself about whether or not you believe there is a risk of you doing these things to a person.

    Secondly, I notice you don’t seem to present an understanding of why you get aroused by these things which you imply are more extreme. Without knowing anything specific about the material you’re viewing or your life leading to this point, I can only offer some summarised and synthesised advice.

    • Begin with a reflective process on what’s lead you to view the material or have the kinks/desires you have. I would personally suggest doing this as a timeline exercise on each: the development of what you find arousing; and the history of your porn use and the type of content you’re viewing. If there is significant overlap between the two at key junctions or turning points then it suggests that what you’ve experienced is the classic pipeline of getting drawn towards more and more extreme stimulus via exposure to increasingly extreme porn. This is well understood as a process and I think even some high-level reading about it would allow you to determine whether your desires and arousal have been hijacked and lead down this path, or whether they’re coming from somewhere else (obviously it could be a mixture of the two). As well as a timeline, you could perhaps try to summarise or explain your desires/kinks to yourself with written words. You might have a good understanding of these already, but in case you don’t it might be good to start understanding the shape of them and how you would communicate or explain them to others if forced to. Be both specific and general, forcing yourself to understand the low-level details as well as summarise and abstract to try and understand general trends.
    • Depending on the outcomes of the above process, investigate seeking help with porn addiction or some therapy. This isn’t to kink-shame necessarily, but you say things like “repress” and “lose control”. I think the best thing to do here is talk honestly and openly with someone who has training to frame and steer the conversation. I am aware that in the imperial core, mental health services and frameworks can be problematic but I think that it’s probably better to start somewhere and begin the journey of addressing the problems and experiences you have.
    • Simultaneous to the above, it may be a good idea to seek out some peer-support groups around porn addiction. I think this may present other risks since — as other comrades note in this thread — there are reactionary approaches and frameworks which also deal with stopping to use. But the goal would be to see other people discussing the effects and experiences of porn use and see if these align with your own experiences and begin to recontextualise your own use of the material.
    • If appropriate, there may also be peer-support spaces on the topics of managing and dealing with the specific material and desires you have; whether they’re informed by pornography or coming from somewhere else.

    Lastly, I do want to say that struggling with something like this must be awful and not to beat yourself up too much, because it seems like you’ve acknowledged that viewing the materials you’re viewing is still indeed harmful. To me this implies that you’ve taken a very important first step and the challenge for you now is actually doing something about it. I also want to apologise if this comes across as kink-shaming; I am basing my assumption on the fact that you’re concerned about the material you’re watching and that the tone of your post implies that some of the acts are explicitly quite violent towards women.

    Good luck comrade




  • Simple answer: no.

    Complex answer: sometimes-very-very-very-occasionally based on a complex set of input like is it a special event, am I among friends, how’s my physical training otherwise going, am I bloated, what’s my diet like this week/month/quarter, am I off of work, am I over-socialised, what do I want to get done tomorrow, etc.

    Basically, it’s easier to say “no” because I will go two years without a single drink because broadly I don’t want to drink alcohol anymore because it gets in the way of what I want to do, is expensive, and makes me bloated and sleep poorly. But then I’ll have a glass of red wine with my fianćee to celebrate the end of our Equinox holiday, where we’ve been hiking for a solid week, and my strength training and distance running has been progressing very well for a good quarter now, and this restaurant / pub has a red wine that I know I like the taste of.

    I never drink more than a glass or perhaps two maximum, and never to the point of being drunk anymore. Although I did enjoy some healthy nights out bopping in clubs with some mild inebriation back when I was at university in my 20s.



  • Like all things when the workers seize power, I think socialist education needs to be built and we need to accept that we cannot change it overnight to a theoretically idealistic system. It’s likely that this will look different in both process and end-goals in different implementations of socialism across the world based on the needs and other material aspects of society such as culture and approaches. It’s also likely to continue to change and evolve with these needs and cultures.

    In my country (Great Britain / UK) I see the following as immediate concerns for a socialist government to begin addressing (in no particular order / simultaneously):

    • Better pay for teachers and other educational staff – teachers are woefully underpaid in Britain. This can be addressed very quickly with reallocation of funds, which in turn would presumably become more and more available as the state closes tax loop-holes and seizes assets from capitalists. There are also a multitude of other educational staff such as librarians, people we call “teaching assistants”, and probably a whole bunch of roles I’m unaware of that should also be compensated appropriately.
    • Seizing private schools – there are private schools in Britain and they are perceived to have a better quality of education due to more resources acquired from their private funding structure. It’d be a logical step to seize these as assets and return them to public hands. This goes double for places like Eton. Seize it and return it. Remove its ability to support and perpetuate the Capitalist class.
    • Reversing academisation – in Britain there has been a great push first under the neoliberal Blairite New Labour regime and now under the (also neoliberal, kinda fascist) Conservative regime to convert schools into “Academies”. This removes them from local authority control and establishes a “funding agreement” directly with the Department of Education. While central government funding is good in concept, the result of this is that local authorities (and therefore local people) have less and less power. There is also the case where “academy trusts”, basically non-profit companies, can be established and run several schools. This effectively privatises the UK mandatory school system, and sets the groundwork for a pay-to-learn system once the government decides the time is right to withdraw funding. Reversing this process alongside rebuilding proper local democratic power and establishing progressive federalism to enable participation in a central government would result in greater local power over education.
    • Removing faith schools – There’s a weird thing in Britain where “Catholic Schools” seem to offer better overall quality of education but it comes at the cost of basically having a compromised education in particular topics (Religious studies and sex education are examples) and having to start attending church. I’d need to check this but I think they mostly exist as Academies so they might be dealt with by the above process, but otherwise they’d need to be seized as assets and integrated into the Local Authority education system and brought in line with the rest of the schools on particular topics.
    • Improving working conditions in schools – I accept that “working conditions” is a very broad term, but I think that there is a bare minimum starting point which can be arrived at through co-operation and engagement with staff at schools and their unions to understand what needs to be done. Things like training and hiring additional teachers to reduce workload and class sizes and create room for longer breaks. I think this would be a slightly more medium-term process achieved over perhaps half a decade due to the need to encourage people back into the profession or attract people to do it in the first place, after decades of having it attacked by the government.
    • Heavily subsidised food for staff and students – mandatory education is a wide-reaching entry point for short-to-medium term responses to problems arising from poverty such as malnutrition. Provision of healthy free or heavily subsidised meals distributed via schools would reach a large number of children. Provision of a three staple meals a day through schools for those who need it would be an obvious first step to take.
    • Heavy investment in facilities and provision of equipment – as other comrades have pointed out here, this doesn’t necessarily mean technology wholesale. Things like space, additional classrooms, updating physical infrastrucure, provision of basic education materials to both teachers and students would likely be a good first step.
    • Integration of mental health services – the British school system can be incredibly violent and traumatic (alongside other violent and traumatic results of capitalism experienced outside of school). This is a really knotty problem and one that likely has a lot of causes. Bringing in dedicated, specialist, well-paid and well-supported, mental health services for students which intregrate as seamlessy as possible into the school experience may be a good entry point for supporting students with their immediate mental health needs as well as generating body of professionals to begin providing front-line reporting on what students are saying is causing their mental health issues. Findings should of course be integrated as material for making other structural interventions across Britain outside/inside the educational system.

    Once the above is achieved, I think we’d have a traditional education system but one which is not experiencing a constant crisis and is at least actually attempting to provide an education to students. Further things to consider at this stage:

    • Remove imperialist and colonialist apologism and framings from education plans – self explanatory and arguably should be an immediate concern listed above. I’ve put it here because I believe that the British public as-is would be skeptical about government interference in schools and would need to see the proof of the good work above before being ready for this. It may simply be that this needs to be dismantled a bit more slowly, rather than having sweeping changes to the curriculum. Learning about the horrors of the British colonial and imperialist projects. Reframing “heroes” such as Churchill by revealing the truth of his actions and values. Etc etc.
    • Democratisation of the workplace – I have less of an idea how this would work in schools or even what would be the most appropriate; but roles such as Heads of Department and Head Teachers (Principals) should either be re-thought entirely if necessary or at least distributed democratically through practices of workplace democracy or via participation of citizens in Local Authority democratic processes.
    • Integration of Youth Workers as support staff – I’ve spent a lot of time around Youth Work charities in Britain and they successfully deal with a lot of children and young people who are excluded from education or otherwise don’t participate or are “lost causes”. Basically “the naughty kids”. There are different approaches to Youth Work in Britain and I have my favourites, but what I’m getting at here is that things in British education like bullying or “disruptive children” must be approached holistically or from various angles. Youth Workers are inherently trained to deal with the young people who suffer from and in-turn perpetuate these conditions in schools. There’s a lot of relationship rebuilding to be done on this front in Britain as Youth Workers don’t trust schools (for good reason) and schools currently don’t take Youth Workers seriously (at least not for the most part). Allowing a way for Youth Workers to interface or integrate into the education system will provide knowledge exchange as well as immediate relief for acute problems in certain circumstances.
    • Outreach and integration to home-schoolers – given the utter state of British public education at the moment I can understand why many choose not to send their child to school but it does come with its own problems. Outreach should be done to these people to rebuild their trust in the education system as part of and during any reforms with the initial goal of removing these barriers and reintegrating the young people to the education system.

    Other things I cannot suggest on specifically or have only had simple notions about:

    • Rebuild pedagogical approaches – I am not a trained teacher but I’ve taken a light interest in pedagogy so please correct any misunderstandings I have. I’m usually drawn to Freire’s Critical Pedagogy as an entry point for how to reframe education. I think this would be a longer-term effort but one that pays dividends in achieving a better way of growing and sharing human knowledge.
    • Teaching Dialectic and Historical Materialism – theory and practice. Teaching students how to do this type of thinking to come up with their own analyses and to critically examine the analyses of others can only be a good thing.
    • Lifetime access to education – No idea with this would look like in practice or the specific needs of people at the moment. I’d like to see the ability for people to have the option for continuously accessing new material about things they’ve either learned previously during mandatory education or topics that are new to them. As well as being emotionally, mentally, and spiritually fulfilling for a human’s desire to learn and grow; this system would need to encompass the capacity to retrain workers from sectors of the economy which are either automated into needing minimum worker oversight or are replaced entirely (ie fossil fuels dying away).
    • Reframing the “School -> College -> University” pipeline – British Higher Education is also broken, which I think is outside of the scope of this thread. In British schools Colleges (also known as 6th forms) cover education from the ages of 16 to 18 (give or take the age of someone resitting a year) and while experiences may vary, my experience and that of my peers was certainly “this is a stepping stone to University which is basically your passport to middle-classdom”. The only alternatives presented are vocational courses. I’m not sure what the experience of those on vocational courses is, but there was a dismissive attitude about them when I was at 6th form. Higher education is valuable but this attitude needs sorting out and there needs to be a variety of pathways in and out of the schooling system to the workplace and Higher Education so it’s not presented as a binary and fate-deciding final choice. I think this touches more on what other comrades have suggested around lifetime education and going back to school.