Right, but destroying the spice would end all the spice induced prophecies. Jihad would not happen, simply because guild would refuse to transport Fremen. Civil war in the empire would also not happen for the same reason. Trade would stop and humanity would be fragmented again, but, fun fact, most of planets were just subsistence farming feudal shitholes that would not die out, and another fun fact, the one that die would be nobility, from lack of spice. I don’t really see many downsides to this in comparison with Leto II rule and its consequences.
Well what he did eventually did end up like that one way or another. Humanity did scatter and fragment. This kind of reinforces that Dune really is anti-great man propaganda tbh. Like good job wormie, you did in 5k years what could’ve just been done in the first book…
I was actually worse though, because of scale plus the mass genocides in books 5+. Also the core of problem was not even removed, remember that the first real invisible human was Siona, and even if they really had thousands descendants really fast, the scattering started at roughly the same point so almost nobody scattering had it at first and there is just no possiblity for the genes to spread enough in 1500 years.
Imo basically every core problem of humanity in Dune stemmed from bad guys winning the butlerian jihad. That’s what make it a Greek tragedy where every choice is bad as long as you don’t free yourself from that basic iron premise.
But the basic problem of Dune as a book is that is completely idealist (with prominent Great Man theory, even though it criticise it as you said) and there is little historical materialism in it, despite constantly claiming it is a book about societies, ecology etc. After book 4 it stopped even pretending.
Oh yeah, fully agreed. I think Dune as a Greek Tragedy and not a “warning” or moral lesson makes much more sense. It’s not about what not to do, but about the inevitability of tragedy. Even if humanity escape our current cycles, we’ll just enter longer and even more tragic cycles.
Right, but destroying the spice would end all the spice induced prophecies. Jihad would not happen, simply because guild would refuse to transport Fremen. Civil war in the empire would also not happen for the same reason. Trade would stop and humanity would be fragmented again, but, fun fact, most of planets were just subsistence farming feudal shitholes that would not die out, and another fun fact, the one that die would be nobility, from lack of spice. I don’t really see many downsides to this in comparison with Leto II rule and its consequences.
Well what he did eventually did end up like that one way or another. Humanity did scatter and fragment. This kind of reinforces that Dune really is anti-great man propaganda tbh. Like good job wormie, you did in 5k years what could’ve just been done in the first book…
I was actually worse though, because of scale plus the mass genocides in books 5+. Also the core of problem was not even removed, remember that the first real invisible human was Siona, and even if they really had thousands descendants really fast, the scattering started at roughly the same point so almost nobody scattering had it at first and there is just no possiblity for the genes to spread enough in 1500 years.
Imo basically every core problem of humanity in Dune stemmed from bad guys winning the butlerian jihad. That’s what make it a Greek tragedy where every choice is bad as long as you don’t free yourself from that basic iron premise.
But the basic problem of Dune as a book is that is completely idealist (with prominent Great Man theory, even though it criticise it as you said) and there is little historical materialism in it, despite constantly claiming it is a book about societies, ecology etc. After book 4 it stopped even pretending.
Oh yeah, fully agreed. I think Dune as a Greek Tragedy and not a “warning” or moral lesson makes much more sense. It’s not about what not to do, but about the inevitability of tragedy. Even if humanity escape our current cycles, we’ll just enter longer and even more tragic cycles.
Very lib, but yeah 🤷♂️