No. Do not vote for any candidate other than the one picked by the Democratic party (probably Biden) to run against the Republican candidate (probably Trump). Voting for alternative parties decreases Democratic votes for Biden, and increases the chances of a Trump reelection. Alternative candidates (even if they’re absolutely amazing individuals) don’t have a chance in hell of getting enough votes to make a difference, but they have an excellent chance of diverting voting mass from the Democratic candidate. Unless you’re really stoked for another four years of Trump and his fascist cronies, go for a straight Democratic ticket. Your protest vote won’t help anyone except Trump. Guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move. Please vote for the Democrat, ffs.
So how are we supposed to actually get a genuinely progressive candidate in? And we can’t just leave things with the terrible two-party system we have. What’s the alternative other than “Vote lesser evil! Maybe we’ll get someone good rather than just not terrible eventually!”? Am I missing something here? ~Cherri
I mean kind of, but more like, “Let’s keep that crazy guy from making things absolutely dogshit and then from there we figure improvements out, but if the fascists take over it’s game over because they change the rules as soon as they get power in order to keep power.”
It’s not voting for a lesser evil. It’s a vote to keep democracy turned on. Once the democracy is turned off it’s incredibly hard to turn back on again. One guy talks about invalidating elections due to imaginary fraud while selling state secrets. The other guy is just old but he likes it when people vote in elections for things. Is that the lesser of two evils? Kind of a silly phrase. Any two things, one will be more evil, and as nothing is perfect, the other will have less but still some evil. The lesser of two evils is an excuse to do nothing or in this case, scuttle any hope of doing better in the future.
Why can’t we do more than one thing at the same time? Why not try to make things better than before and prevent the fascists (they’re not “crazy”, fasciam isn’t caused by mental illness) from taking over? I mean things being as terrible as they are for the working class right now is a pretty major factor in rhe recent rise in fascism, so really you have to do the former to do the latter, otherwise it won’t work. You have to meaningfully improve things to combat fascism. So what are we supposed to do to get things like UBI; single-payer M4A; a voting system better than first past the post, student debt cancellation and free college tuition; codification of the Convention of the Rights of the Child, queer civil rights, and Roe v. Wade, and other progressive policies to actually be implemented?.. ~Cherri
Primaries. It’s where most elections actually happen anyway. The vast majority of Senate seats are gerrymandered so that one or the other party is practically guaranteed a win. Generally the best strategy is to vote in whatever primary is going to win the general election, and try to move the levers from the inside instead of putting forth someone that is guaranteed to lose in the general.
How do we do all of that and get rid of the gerrymandering and stuff? Right now it doesn’t feel possible but… I don’t know, I forgot where I was going with this. ~Cherri
I don’t “protest vote”. I vote for the best candidates on the ballot. I vote for the candidates that I would like to see win.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move.
I wish the Republicans were funneling money to socialists and other leftist candidates. I think it would backfire on them the same way “elevating” Trump did for the Democrats.
Please vote for the Democrat, ffs.
I sure will, as soon as the Democrats adopt single-payer health care, free college tuition, a Green New Deal, etc. If they want my vote, it’s simple: adopt the Greens’ platform. I have no loyalty to parties. I would’ve voted for Bernie if he’d gotten nominated.
Is a candidate you agree with 100% but who has 0% chance of winning the best candidate? Or, is it the candidate you agree with 75% and has 60% chance of winning?
The current two-party system we have is god awful. We can’t leave it like this. What are we supposed to do? How do you propose we get single-payer M4A? UBI? Green New Deal? Free college tuition? Ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child? Codifying the rights of queer people? Codifying Roe v Wade? What specifically are we supposed to do about this if voting doesn’t work? Am I missing something here? How do we get out of this nightmare? ~Cherri
Yes. That’s unfortunately how it is in a 2 party system which is guaranteed by the game theory behind first part the past voting. Burying your head in the sand and pretending otherwise with a 3rd party vote leads to a spoiling effect more destructive to your cause.
I was asking about if the policies I mentioned have enough support within the Democratic Party that the Dems will actually implement those policies when they have a majority rather than them being shot down by people like Manchin and Sinema. ~Cherri
I believe so. My goal is to get Democrats an unassailable majority, without needing people like Manchin. I think we’ll see a lot of great changes if that happens.
If we get to that point and Democrats still don’t get things done, and there’s no reasonable explanation, I will turn on them on a dime.
So what do we do to make sure they actually get a majority and that either people like Manchin and Sinema aren’t in it or that they choose to stop shooting down progressive policies and all that? ~Cherri
I understand being frustrated with the two-party system but given what we’ve got now, voting for anything other than the democratic ticket is detrimental to your views. Voting third party in our current political climate can literally only help Republicans.
As I said in another reply, until we have national ranked-choice voting, voting for a third party candidate is not in any way helpful, no matter how much you dislike the party. At the end of the day, it’s going to be far better having a Democratic majority and president than anyone from the GOP, who are an existential threat (climate change, reproductive rights, class equity, etc).
The failure of the left to unite behind the Green Party is what has caused so many of our problems. The Greens were talking about a Green New Deal over a decade ago; for the Democrats, that’s a fringe position even today. And that’s just one issue. Single payer health care was part of the Green platform back in the 90s, and that’s still a fringe position for Democrats 30 years later. I could go on and on.
It was also somewhat in the beforetimes. I used to ALWAYS vote third party. Then one party decided that facts, such as who won an election didn’t matter anymore, and that sealed the fate of my voting for third parties. We’ll really never see a viable third party until either one side of the R/D fractures into two parties, handing complete control for a while to the other, or we move away from ‘first past the post’ voting.
Vote Green.
No. Do not vote for any candidate other than the one picked by the Democratic party (probably Biden) to run against the Republican candidate (probably Trump). Voting for alternative parties decreases Democratic votes for Biden, and increases the chances of a Trump reelection. Alternative candidates (even if they’re absolutely amazing individuals) don’t have a chance in hell of getting enough votes to make a difference, but they have an excellent chance of diverting voting mass from the Democratic candidate. Unless you’re really stoked for another four years of Trump and his fascist cronies, go for a straight Democratic ticket. Your protest vote won’t help anyone except Trump. Guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move. Please vote for the Democrat, ffs.
There’s proof this happened with the Green party in multiple previous election cycles.
Montana Republicans bankrolled Green Party ballot access
GOP-linked firm paid $532,000 for Greens petition drive, files say
If you live in a safe state, feel free to cast a protest vote knowing it will not make a difference. We don’t have a national election.
2000? I could not vote for Al Gore, and I didn’t. Guess what?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_in_Oregon
Yup. No difference.
2016 I could not vote for Clinton.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Oregon
Same deal.
So how are we supposed to actually get a genuinely progressive candidate in? And we can’t just leave things with the terrible two-party system we have. What’s the alternative other than “Vote lesser evil! Maybe we’ll get someone good rather than just not terrible eventually!”? Am I missing something here? ~Cherri
I mean kind of, but more like, “Let’s keep that crazy guy from making things absolutely dogshit and then from there we figure improvements out, but if the fascists take over it’s game over because they change the rules as soon as they get power in order to keep power.”
It’s not voting for a lesser evil. It’s a vote to keep democracy turned on. Once the democracy is turned off it’s incredibly hard to turn back on again. One guy talks about invalidating elections due to imaginary fraud while selling state secrets. The other guy is just old but he likes it when people vote in elections for things. Is that the lesser of two evils? Kind of a silly phrase. Any two things, one will be more evil, and as nothing is perfect, the other will have less but still some evil. The lesser of two evils is an excuse to do nothing or in this case, scuttle any hope of doing better in the future.
Why can’t we do more than one thing at the same time? Why not try to make things better than before and prevent the fascists (they’re not “crazy”, fasciam isn’t caused by mental illness) from taking over? I mean things being as terrible as they are for the working class right now is a pretty major factor in rhe recent rise in fascism, so really you have to do the former to do the latter, otherwise it won’t work. You have to meaningfully improve things to combat fascism. So what are we supposed to do to get things like UBI; single-payer M4A; a voting system better than first past the post, student debt cancellation and free college tuition; codification of the Convention of the Rights of the Child, queer civil rights, and Roe v. Wade, and other progressive policies to actually be implemented?.. ~Cherri
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Primaries. It’s where most elections actually happen anyway. The vast majority of Senate seats are gerrymandered so that one or the other party is practically guaranteed a win. Generally the best strategy is to vote in whatever primary is going to win the general election, and try to move the levers from the inside instead of putting forth someone that is guaranteed to lose in the general.
How do we do all of that and get rid of the gerrymandering and stuff? Right now it doesn’t feel possible but… I don’t know, I forgot where I was going with this. ~Cherri
I don’t “protest vote”. I vote for the best candidates on the ballot. I vote for the candidates that I would like to see win.
I wish the Republicans were funneling money to socialists and other leftist candidates. I think it would backfire on them the same way “elevating” Trump did for the Democrats.
I sure will, as soon as the Democrats adopt single-payer health care, free college tuition, a Green New Deal, etc. If they want my vote, it’s simple: adopt the Greens’ platform. I have no loyalty to parties. I would’ve voted for Bernie if he’d gotten nominated.
Is a candidate you agree with 100% but who has 0% chance of winning the best candidate? Or, is it the candidate you agree with 75% and has 60% chance of winning?
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The current two-party system we have is god awful. We can’t leave it like this. What are we supposed to do? How do you propose we get single-payer M4A? UBI? Green New Deal? Free college tuition? Ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child? Codifying the rights of queer people? Codifying Roe v Wade? What specifically are we supposed to do about this if voting doesn’t work? Am I missing something here? How do we get out of this nightmare? ~Cherri
Campaign within the Democratic Party for those positions- they already have a lot of support.
Enough support among other politicians within the Democratic Party to get them to pass this stuff if they have a majority? ~Cherri
Yes. That’s unfortunately how it is in a 2 party system which is guaranteed by the game theory behind first part the past voting. Burying your head in the sand and pretending otherwise with a 3rd party vote leads to a spoiling effect more destructive to your cause.
I was asking about if the policies I mentioned have enough support within the Democratic Party that the Dems will actually implement those policies when they have a majority rather than them being shot down by people like Manchin and Sinema. ~Cherri
I believe so. My goal is to get Democrats an unassailable majority, without needing people like Manchin. I think we’ll see a lot of great changes if that happens.
If we get to that point and Democrats still don’t get things done, and there’s no reasonable explanation, I will turn on them on a dime.
So what do we do to make sure they actually get a majority and that either people like Manchin and Sinema aren’t in it or that they choose to stop shooting down progressive policies and all that? ~Cherri
I understand being frustrated with the two-party system but given what we’ve got now, voting for anything other than the democratic ticket is detrimental to your views. Voting third party in our current political climate can literally only help Republicans.
As I said in another reply, until we have national ranked-choice voting, voting for a third party candidate is not in any way helpful, no matter how much you dislike the party. At the end of the day, it’s going to be far better having a Democratic majority and president than anyone from the GOP, who are an existential threat (climate change, reproductive rights, class equity, etc).
The failure of the left to unite behind the Green Party is what has caused so many of our problems. The Greens were talking about a Green New Deal over a decade ago; for the Democrats, that’s a fringe position even today. And that’s just one issue. Single payer health care was part of the Green platform back in the 90s, and that’s still a fringe position for Democrats 30 years later. I could go on and on.
The green party has been for the last decade funded by the GOP run PACs as a means to siphon left leaning votes. Don’t be a fool.
I’m the fool? The planet is burning, and they have you convinced that the one party who’s interested in fixing it is your enemy.
Ah, yes. I remember when I was young, healthy, middle class, single, and childless too.
It was also somewhat in the beforetimes. I used to ALWAYS vote third party. Then one party decided that facts, such as who won an election didn’t matter anymore, and that sealed the fate of my voting for third parties. We’ll really never see a viable third party until either one side of the R/D fractures into two parties, handing complete control for a while to the other, or we move away from ‘first past the post’ voting.
And then you sold out?