After years of reddit/twitter/facebook propping up fascism/bigotry with algorithms & bots I’m honestly surprised and relieved to be in an online space that clearly rejects their ideology.
They can have reddit/facebook/twitter. AFAIC the only way to reach some of these people is to leave them alone long enough to realize on their own.
Lemmy.world admins are doing an amazing job dealing with everything. Their recent decision to defederate from exploding heads (or whatever its called) really goes to show that they’re in it for the right reasons.
That’s something I noticed when I joined Mastodon as well. When people are in control for the sake of community and not profit, things tend to be better in this regard. Let crazies federate with crazies.
NGL I derive some joy seeing maga/conservative/fascist communities getting all their misinformation downvoted to hell while the only positively voted posts are about the crimes & failures of trump and republicans in general.
I don’t want them banned. This is much better.
They don’t learn though. While you may derive pleasure from their ignorance, there are some who may get sucked into their worldview who may not otherwise be. Free speech doesn’t require a community to put up with their nonsense.
I don’t derive pleasure from their ignorance. From that I derive migraines. It’s specifically their failure to gain traction here on lemmy that I must admit to a degree of schadenfreude.
But for real, I’ve lost dear friends to this movement. At this point I’ve simply recognized that the only way to save those people is to be patient and keep an open door in case they do realize they’re being duped. It’s that or drive them further into the cult.
Thankfully lemmy is not putting up with their nonsense. I don’t actually care if they get banned or not. I can only hope that seeing that their rhetoric only trends in spaces known to be bot-ridden and algo-driven will cause the most rational of them to wake up.
Hear hear.
What does free speech have to do with it? Free speech right guarantees that you won’t be prosecuted by the government for your words. It doesn’t apply to private communications.
That is true but social media people have collectively made up “freedom of speech rights” on social media without understanding how the technology or the law works at all.
Terms of Service are all we have online, unless the government is hosting the platform.
Free speech as a law, maybe, but many people like myself view it as an ideal.
That’s not an ideal, that’s lunacy.
Fuck censorship.
Only government can enforce censorship.
How’s that Nazi bar story go again?
I was at a shitty crust punk bar once getting an afterwork beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “No. Get out.”
And the dude next to me says, “Hey, I’m not doing anything. I’m a paying customer,” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “Out. Now,” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed.
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “You didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And I was like, “Oh okay,” and he continues.
"You have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after a while they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends, and the friends bring friends, and they stop being cool and then you realize, ‘Oh shit. This is a nazi bar now.’ And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down."
And I was like, “Oh damn,” and he said, “Yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
-iamragesparkle
fuck thats so good so perfectly understandable. When we think about genius we tend to think about mathematicians and physicist working on problems no one else understands. The real genius’s out there though in my opinion are people who understand something so well and so fully they can break down a concept like this. A story anyone can understand.
Absolutely. I’ve heard if you can’t explain something in a way that a beginner would understand, you don’t know it as well as you think you do. That’s real mastery.
brilliant.
So, did nazi that coming.
Loved the comment from user @TheLurker@lemmy.world :
*"If you want your own unfiltered feed. Create your own instance and don’t de-federated any other instance. All the content in the feed will be available because like email, it is federated, so you only need to subscribe to the feeds. The admins do not control the content. But they do control the instances which they maintain, and rightly so.
This is NOT A PLATFORM, it is a protocol and you have the choice to engage with it how you want. Don’t like an instance, stop using it. Use another or create your own. You will still get all the content."*
This is just so well stated, imho. Of course the person TheLurker was speaking to isn’t interested in the content, they’re interested in the users so that they can troll them endlessly.
I love how taking out the Trump trash happens so much faster here!
Over in the old place, getting the admins to do something about right-wing toxicity was like pulling teeth. Flagrant TOS-violating bigotry, hate & disinfo would fester for weeks, months, years while the admins yawned
At the same time, if people started talking about punching Nazis, the bans and post deletions would start flying instantly, with admins threatening mods & threatening to ban entire subs if they didn’t delete Nazi-punching posts fast enough.
Gee, you think those admins were biased?
with admins threatening mods & threatening to ban entire subs if they didn’t delete Nazi-punching posts fast enough.
Oh hey there, beholdthemasterrace subscriber! That poor mod.
Hey!!!
Is beholdthemasterrace migrating to Fediverse land? I’d love to find them over here!
I’m not sure. I stopped following it awhile ago, over half of the comments in some of the posts were brigaders.
Wait why are you glorifying banning “trump trash”, free speech should definitely not include banning someone for their political opinions. I am voting trump next election hands down.
You don’t get to agree to disagree when your political agenda involves shitting on people’s rights.
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The man was selling classified information, it’s not a far left to view his supporters as trash, it’s patriotic.
The issue with supporting Trump is all the dog whistling he does. People in the know understand that he wants to suppress “the bad people’s” rights. People against that know the tolerance paradox and shut down Trumpism immediately.
People who don’t know the dog whistling wonder why everyone is so upset and continue supporting him.
Fuck off conservative trash
I was so fucking relieved to see that lemmy.world doesn’t fuck around with the fascist “absolute free-speech” game. Fucking FINALLY! If I didn’t already have a reason not to return to reddit/Twitter/whatever, this would’ve been enough on its own. Thank you, admins!
Agreed.
There’s no good reason to platform people who proudly espouse terrorist ideologies, and fascism is 100% a terrorist ideology.
Well, we learned the lesson from Voat. “Absolute free speech” just doesn’t work.
The lack of corporate influence is really felt here. Corpos love right-wing fanatics because they make people mad, which encourages engagement with a platform.
I’ve really found myself not emotionally engaged when on the fediverse and that’s great.
It truly has been such a pleasant experience. I have commented more since the 12th here than I have in a year from the other place.
While I certainly understand the appeal of “free speech no compromises” the evidence is real clear that any online forum that adopts that mentality invariably becomes a bigoted shitpile, I’m not going to make a choice on philosophical grounds when the reality of the situation makes itself so obvious
Is it a coincidence that every single place that claims to be “free speech - no exceptions!!1!” is an absolute trash fire inside of a rat hole? NOPE. That’s the Paradox of Tolerance proving itself true.
We need to heed the warnings, and I’m glad the Fediverse exists to do so.
Relevant xkcd for the occasion: https://m.xkcd.com/1357/
Those “free speech” places just end up degenerating into a cesspool where people who were banned elsewhere end up congregating.
We’re defederating from exploding heads? That means the admins actually listened to the complaints by community moderators and looked into it. That’s amazing news!
We aren’t quite out of the woods yet.
/c/ConservativesOnly /c/Maga/c/conservative and/c/prolifeare still around here on lemmyworld and spreading bullshit.Edit: some were removed after all
c/ConservativesOnly and c/Maga were removed due to lack of moderation and because the previous moderator(s) were banned.
Holy shit… either that was in the last 10 hours or my lemmy was lagging.
Props to the admins/mods!
NGL part of me wanted the banned mod (OptionHome I think) to stay and be our community laughing stock.
True but have you looked at the vote scores in those communities?
On reddit they were cesspools but on lemmy they’re laughing stocks. The only posts they can get above zero are antithetical ones pointing out the criminality and incompetence of trump/republicans.
If the internet existed in Germany in the 1930’s, I wouldn’t take much solace in the fact that the fascists are getting downvoted. They’re getting into power and every day they spread more and more dehuminization and hate.
On reddit they became cesspools because the admins refused to do anything about their fascism, so I don’t have a lot of trust for the admins of lemmy.
Would you be happier if it was only upvotes? I don’t follow your logic at all.
I just don’t want fascism to be allowed on this instance to begin with.
I get the inclination to want admins to ban them… but not only is that unnecessary (at this point in time!) it’s also a far, far weaker rebuke than the entire community refusing to let them trend.
We saw how on reddit, banning subs simply resulted in them making new ones.
At least on lemmy there is visible evidence that no matter what they call their community it will be rejected by the lemmy community as a whole.
At least here’s hoping!
Fascism = political viewpoint that I disagree with
I checked those out out of morbid curiosity and saw them mostly being trolled by lefties/libs. Warmed my heart.
I’d like to believe that such communities could be allowed to exist as long as they weren’t allowed to become “safe spaces” for misinformation the way the ones on Reddit were (i.e. if everybody defederated with any ones that did). Allowing those sorts of people to post but denying them the ability to stop others from debunking their claims could be more effective than shoving them off into dark corners where they can radicalize themselves undisturbed.
I’m not sure whether I do believe that, but I’d like to.
Blocked
Genuine question: are you just trying to censor any viewpoint that you disagree with? Because it sure as shit seems like you guys are trying to make this into another left-wing circlejerk where anything even remotely right wing is immediately removed regardless of how level-headed or civil it’s presented.
are you just trying to censor any viewpoint that you disagree with?
Nope. I just don’t like fascists/bigots.
Oh go back to your own circlejerks. You’ve got plenty. Truth Social, 4chan, Twitter…
You do not belong here.
You do not belong here
My crime? Having a different opinion. You sound awfully fascist to me.
Your different opinion is that those who think LGBT people should die should be allowed to spread that opinion
You are wrong, deal
Except nobody said that, lmfao. Nice try though.
where anything even remotely right wing is immediately removed regardless of how level-headed or civil it’s presented.
There is nothing civil about taking people’s rights away, dehumanizing people, and destroying our biosphere. Fascism is inherently uncivil regardless of presentation.
Most people don’t have an issue with old conservatism, as it still had the goal of making the country better.
Modern conservatism is more focused on contrarianism and depriving various groups of their rights or quality of life. Given the tolerance paradox, people outside of this mindset don’t want to allow discussion in that area to spread.
Due to this shift in conservatism, communities that, on their face, seem like communities with just a different political leaning have had to tolerate this bigotry.
I somewhat agree. Though it’s hard to distinguish humour from truth these days.
There hasn’t been a shift in conservatism. There has, however, been a shift in the left’s labeling of it.
Right: “don’t chop off the penis of children”
Left’s response: “OMG you’re literally commuting genocide to trans people!!!”
Yeah, no. Not buying it. And banning anything you disagree with in the guise of “anti-fascism” is just the Orwellian icing on the cake.
Aaaand you are fucking lying.
Yeah tbh trans discussion isn’t even my space so I’m not even going to get involved. I just don’t want to have an opinion of others lives or belief systems in this case.
Personally, my only gripe really is that I feel that male bisexuality should be more accepted. Not directed at anyone in particular.
That’s it really.
Cool. Glad you have an opinion. Isn’t it great that you’re allowed to express it civilly without a horde of intolerant losers trying to censor you for it?
Right: “don’t chop off the penis of children”
What about hermaphrodites where ambiguous genitalia could be damaging to their long-term health?
IIRC, removal of the inappropriate penis (external genitalia) is the preferred choice in today’s medial science for fixing 46 XX DSD. Which is a pretty simple case of internal-organs are female, the child identifies as a female, but for various mutation/birth defect reasons, she was born with a penis (Completely non-functioning mind you, as all the internal parts are female).
exploding heads
I don’t know what that is and to be honest at this point I’m too afraid to ask.
I just heard about it minutes ago and the thread was locked. There will be some sort of announcement.
But apparently it was a alt-right conspiracy maga white supremist space. A user was commenting here all pissed off that that their repulsive community can’t be forced on everyone like they would their ideology.
Aww they sound so cute
so cute
I don’t like the way this shriveled sentient brain is looking at me.
OneBaldBraincell
THE BIG BRAIN AM WINNING AGAIN!!1! I AM THE GREETEST!
aw hell naw who got let the raw chicken on the table
What thread?
Ugh, really glad I blocked that user, black conservative the moment I saw them make a thedonald post the community as well of course.
Thank you. That was very informative.
The main (ATM) Lemmy instance for alt right fascist types. Pretty much a gigantic dumpster fire of toxicity that prides itself in raiding other instances to propagate their rectal cancer of a worldview. Defederated them on my instance day one, and happy to see the big names doing as much.
It’s a Fediverse instance which is notorious for being riddled with hate speech
Having seen a sparse handful of comments/posts from them before deciding to exercise kbin’s ability to mute instances…the whole instance seems like a neglected 12yr old’s klan rally, and I normally avoid and look down on political epithets.
If anyone browsing on kbin wants to know how in general, btw, typing the web address for your instance followed by /d/name-of-instance-you-hate will take you to the home page of that server where you can treat it like a normal magazine/community and block it. Worked wonders for 80% of the porn.
I have no idea if it works for lemmy. Could always try but I’m gonna assume no, judging from what complaints I’ve seen
This is the LITERAL first post I saw after signing up. I’m ecstatic and so fucking relieved
LOL, the OOP’s username in that linked thread is certainly a username.
Really appreciate all the human eyes keeping a lookout for this nonsense instead of letting the ragebait spiral in on itself with the algorithms.
The mod comment is glorious in the replies:
If it truly gets under your skin that these bigoted spaces are being defederated by the nicer spaces, feel free to join a more right-wing infested instance. Just understand that the rest of the fediverse is not obliged to listen to their lunacy.
Fuckin’ mike drop.
It’s a pretty good take, but also the defederation ban-hammer seems to get dropped a bit, which seems like it should be the last option, not the first.
Surely there should be a way to mark content coming in from questionable servers with a tag so that users can choose to see it on their instance, similar to how NSFW posts can be hidden.
At least that way the content would be federated and things synced, leaving the choice up to the user.
Why give the option to indulge in that shit? They can fuck right off and live in their dumb little world with each other.
Just in case users really wanted to see some hate speech mixed in with their regular discussions?
Go ahead and build the feature.
Until it exists, this is the current solution.
I think the thing you’re forgetting is that users have the autonomy to find an instance (or create their own) that doesn’t filter that stuff out.
It also seems to me that instances do a good job of describing themselves and it should be pretty easy to get an idea of what they will/won’t allow.
That’s the main issue. Corporate social media place “engagement” above everything. This means amplifying hate and bigotry. Once you stop amplifying this shit, it becomes far less prominent and people aren’t caught in a bubble any more.
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While it’s good to believe in Free Speech generally, a blanket approach is how Reddit alternatives end up like Voat. Even normal people were suggesting it as a popular Reddit alternative, but then it became clear that their slavish devotion to the idea of “free speech” included not kicking out fascists and bigots.
To be fair fascism just like globalism as an idea is just an idea, and I would prefer to discuss ideas honestly, rather than to shove it in people’s face or play devil’s advocate with fearmongering these days, and not to discriminate against people or a persons beliefs
However, there will always be certain people whom will take advantage of this openness, and, much like in the book Orientalism by Edward Said, try to paint someone as the enemy in an attempt to push an agenda or “control the narrative”.
With time and truthfulness, every agenda can become understood if not become somewhat transparent.
Just my two cents.
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And the idea that debating these people does anything other than platform and broadcast their sickness is destroying both social media and the news. We don’t need to both-sides every issue and pretend that it’s a debate, when it’s people who view certain others as sub-human vs people who don’t. Whether certain groups should exist or have the same rights as the rest of us is not a debate topic and we need to stop treating it like it is.
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The idea that everyone deserves a voice no matter how horrific those voices are is an idea that needs to die. Fascists, racists, bigots, nazis, etc. Should never be allowed a “safe space”
Direct confrontation usually works well enough and can resolve whether someone is serious or playing devils advocate
It’s why there is a general fascist upsurge on the world.
