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  • spirit@lemmy.worldEnglish
    9613·
    1 year ago

    Update 2: My conclusion

    Update: So I dug around a little deeper, and found that

    On another topic, there are rumors circulating that we are fascists or supported genocide. These claims are completely false, and like most viral twitter threads, are coming from a single Mastodon user on a personal vendetta who didn’t provide any sources. Such slander doesn’t deserve any response and is best left ignored.

    Update: More info about @dessalines@lemmy.ml

    • MrFlamey@lemmy.worldEnglish
      356·
      1 year ago

      It’s definitely good to have people like you investigating the backgrounds of key developers, as there might be ulterior motives behind them developing open platforms that compete with established Western companies outside of loving the free web and open source. Thank you!

      However, I wonder how many opinions we disagree with would be unearthed by doing this kind of research on every core developer of Chrome, Windows, MacOS, Google or whatever. I think you would find a lot if you get people to air their honest opinions. In today’s climate, if these people were open about certain opinions they might hold (not saying they do, but statistically it’s likely some do) they would just be fired, so it’s easy for large corporations to shake damage to their reputation from having certain staff members. For OSS it is a bit harder, since although developers can be pushed out, and software can be forked, it’s all open and it’s harder to understate the contribution to the source code etc. that such a person could have contributed.

      It does kind of suck when you hear that developers working on software you like have wildly different worldviews to your own, but sometimes you have to put things in perspective. Having said that, if this guy is the only developer I might feel less than happy about using Lemmy instead of Reddit.

      • Otakeb@lemmy.worldEnglish
        171·
        1 year ago

        Personally, I’d rather my open source, decentralized software be developed by a nearly fanatical communist than a slimy entrepreneur/capitalist. Either could try to pull the rug out from under you, but at least one is internally consistent until then…

        • xzite@lemmy.worldEnglish
          128·
          1 year ago

          but at least one is internally consistent until then…

          Having to do the mental gymnastics required to make China not commit genocide does not suggest internal consistency…

        • WolfBearSheep67@lemmy.worldEnglish
          78·
          1 year ago

          I’d rather have open source, decentralized software be developed by none of those groups/slimy individual. Doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.

          • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
            81·
            1 year ago

            I mean you’re more than free to start contributing to Lemmy and / or offer to be on the core team. You can fork it and start your own version of it not owned by them. The nice thing about having a communist (or at least an anticapitalist) developing it instead of a capitalist is that you have the freedom to do that. You cannot do that with Twitter, or with Reddit, or with Facebook, or with Instagram.

            Capitalists will not voluntarily do that because it is unprofitable to them. Companies that do end up floundering or dead.

            Idk to me there’s a very real difference between the two and I’d rather have a tankie developing a platform than someone like Elon Musk making it go to shit.

    • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
      172·
      1 year ago

      This is so weird to me lol, maybe I’m just odd but it’s so weird seeing McCarthyism still rearing it’s ugly head after what… 5 decades? I am by no means an ML (can’t stand them as an anarchist) but this is wildly blowing out of proportion what @dessalines@lemmy.ml has said and done.

      I mean like why link a ‘Socialist FAQ’ that’s literally just a ton of links to education on socialism and the different schools of thought it has? Not all communists are tankies (not even most) lol. Just generally shows a lack of familiarity with actual leftists / anticapitalists.

      • bob@lemmy.havocperil.ukEnglish
        122·
        1 year ago

        I think it’s more like 7 decades and I thought the same. Reds-under-the-bed is still a thing!

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
          74·
          1 year ago

          Please stop spamming this in the thread, it’s annoying af.

          Sometimes people just like spreading drama. Other times they just have weird or different beliefs. Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn’t useful or helpful unless you can demonstrate that this person isn’t just having an internet debate that they feel strongly about.

          • LoboInvernal@lemmy.ptEnglish
            61·
            1 year ago

            Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn’t useful

            @spirit is making claims out of his ass though and taking lots of upvotes. I don’t agree with spamming but there is no proof the reddit user is Dessalines.

            • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              Okay, what I’m saying is a vast majority of the time people just say stupid shit online. And that’s it. This is a good way to say it, not ‘what does this person have to gain by doing the thing that internet users have done for forever to earn imaginary internet points? Are they trying to destroy Lemmy?’

        • Nadya@kbin.social
          43·
          1 year ago

          Since you didn’t notice that in that post /u/parentis_shotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you’re not very observant so I’ll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.

          Step 1) Visit /u/parentis_shotgun’s profile

          Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but “Yes” on it. This post specifically.

          Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering

          Step 4) Read the question: “Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?”

          Step 5) See /u/parentis_shotgun’s response: “Yes.”

          “Misinformation”.

          Ask yourself: What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?

          Alternative route #1: Find parentis_shotgun’s post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.

          Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their “communist 101s” on dessalines.github.io/essays/

            • Nadya@kbin.social
              33·
              1 year ago

              I dislike genocide apologists about as much as I dislike liars and people who spread misinformation. It’s trivially easy to confirm who /u/parentis_shotgun is - so calling it misinformation is blatantly lying especially when their first point is blatantly wrong.

              People can be OK with the dev being a Tankie (“separate the art from the artist” which is a terrible philosophy in its own right but people are welcome to believe in it this more of a philosophical difference) but denying that the dev is a Tankie is where I cross the line. The dev is a Tankie. Do with that information what you will but there is no denying it.

                • Nadya@kbin.social
                  12·
                  1 year ago

                  See: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-tankies-and-the-left-unity-scam

                  But if that’s far too much reading - here’s a TL;DR that’s two paragraphs from it that sums it up nicely.

                  Tankies celebrate Lenin and Trotsky’s massacres of socialist revolutionaries, including the Mensheviks, the sailors of Petrograd, the Socialist Revolutionaries, the anarchists, unaffiliated peasants who had their food confiscated and so on. Tankies also celebrate murdering ‘kulaks’, a word they use to describe any peasant that resisted Soviet imperialism, but especially the Ukrainian peasants that resisted sending all their food to Russia, which they rightly guessed would lead to mass-starvation and one of the worst atrocities in history; the catastrophic Holodomor man-made famine.

                  A tankie is anyone who presents themselves as a ‘communist’, but engages in apologism for torture, slavery, imprisonment, imperialism, capitalism, genocide and the erasure of actually liberatory movements. A tankie is anyone that claims communism can be achieved by replacing a state with another state. A tankie is anyone that will swear up and down that state-capitalism, dictator personality cults and ecosystem-destroying mass-industry will eventually lead to communism through the “withering away” of the brutal state that they uphold.

    • iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.worldEnglish
      209·
      1 year ago

      Wow…thanks. I had no idea this was ongoing. As someone living in Asia and seeing these issues from up close, these ring close to home. I’ll be paying attention for any of these…moderations.

        • Nadya@kbin.social
          61·
          1 year ago

          Since you didn’t notice that in that post /u/parentis_shotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you’re not very observant so I’ll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.

          Step 1) Visit /u/parentis_shotgun’s profile

          Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but “Yes” on it. This post specifically.

          Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering

          Step 4) Read the question: “Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?”

          Step 5) See /u/parentis_shotgun’s response: “Yes.”

          “Misinformation”.

          What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?

          E:

          Alternative route #1: Find parentis_shotgun’s post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.

          Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their “communist 101s” on dessalines.github.io/essays/

        • Anarcho-BolshevikEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          What? I’m sorry, but I can’t read your post. Can you repeat that for me?

        • Nadya@kbin.social
          1·
          1 year ago

          You even get a second reply. Because…

          Even if there wasn’t enough evidence that dessalines is parentis_shotgun - it doesn’t matter! dessalines does not deny being a Tankie and makes no efforts to hide their political thoughts. You can go to lemmy.ml and read through dessalines posts. Find the one where they say “I’m not exactly hiding my politics” and link to their essays on Github. Or you can just go to the essays from their Github profile after confirming that the dessalines that is a Lemmy dev is the same dessalines that is admin on Lemmy.ml and find the link to their essays that way.

          There you can see they attempt to answer many questions. Some generic to Communism - but many more defending Tankie talking points such as:

          Did the Soviet Union manufacture a famine in Ukraine? What about the Holodomor?

          Where they link to articles that deny the genocide.

          And also defend Stalin by linking to revisionist propaganda:

          What about Stalin? Didn’t he kill millions?

          And deny that the Cheka secret police murdered millions of people as ordered by The State:

          Did the Soviet Union repress and kill millions of people?

          They deny the Tiananmen Square massacre - calling it a propaganda hoax:

          What about the Tiananmen square massacre?

          Their defense of China’s 1-child policy? “60,000,000 girls weren’t killed from infanticide. Only 35,000,000 were.” and they provide no other explanation for the severe gender imbalance that China has:

          Did China really kill / commit infanticide on millions of girls during the 1-child policy?

          There isn’t any need to prove that dessalines is parentis_shotgun in order to claim that dessalines is a Tankie. dessalines is very openly a Tankie. One only needs to read the political thoughts that they openly share.

    • CriticalResist8AEnglish
      94·
      1 year ago

      another mod said that @muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml is funded by the NED. Source: https://archive.is/G5Dh7

      lmao you actually believe that us joking around that we’re being funded by the NED is evidence that muad’dibber is funded by them?

      For your information the NED is a CIA front created by an Act of Congress, it’s a tool of regime change established after the CIA lost their capabilities to simply go change presidents in other countries in the 60s-70s.

      The running joke on Lemmygrad is that we’re all feds. You’re wayyy out of your depth lol

    • kestrel7@kbin.social
      84·
      1 year ago

      I believe those people saying lemmy is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy were being sarcastic. Thanks for rounding this up though, I appreciate people who do the due diligence.

      • A_A@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        1 year ago

        You mean to say : except for that excellent comment you replied to ?

        • Snowpix@yiffit.netEnglish
          66·
          1 year ago

          I’m referring to the comments section on the post he linked to, where half the comments are tankies trying to defend the actions of the admins who were banning users and calling them racist for criticizing the CCP/Kremlin.