“Antisocial vehicles”
The UK’s “Antisocial” actual literal Orwell-Ian bullshit is kind of an amazing end-run around any concept of rule of law.
Cars are far more antisocial than dirtbikes
I don’t know about UK, but in the States there is a growing problem of people riding dirt bikes all over the road, essentially shutting down traffic while they do donuts in busy intersections etc. I assume this is the antisocial behavior that Labour is referencing.
It’s the type of antisocial behaviour they’d like to conjure to mind, it’s not the type Britain has a “problem” with, because that’s just straight illegal. Antisocial behaviour is basically anything that annoys someone but isn’t a crime, like children playing ball games in the street, or teens meeting up in groups.
Antisocial behaviour is basically anything that annoys someone but isn’t a crime, like children playing ball games in the street, or teens meeting up in groups.
Whether something is antisocial doesn’t reference legality at all, in my opinion. A behavior is antisocial if its purpose is to resist social norms. These norms may or may not be codified into law, and of course the antisocial behaviors may only become illegal after public outcry.
Random individual antisocial actions occur all the time. When it becomes a trend, then one has to question what deeper angst it expresses. That doesn’t absolve all antisocial behavior nor make it legitimate all the time.
When a right-winger drives around town obnoxiously rolling coal onto cyclists, that is antisocial behavior. It becomes a trend when it captures a growing sentiment among right-wingers that the larger society has left them behind in a supposedly misguided quest to save the environment.
Antisocial behaviors are not always good, nor always bad. It depends on the political content of the behavior.
Maybe there is some deep class struggle in the dirt bikers that I’m missing, but more likely there is nothing particularly deep about it, and it’s just teenagers goofing around and giving their parents/society the middle finger. If that’s the case then I would agree that severely criminalizing the behavior is ridiculous — and I agree with the sentiment of this post that it is an embarrassing thing to campaign on at the national level — but we shouldn’t kid ourselves that by denying that it is antisocial.
I don’t mean the generic concept, I mean antisocial behaviour as it’s applied in the UK with regards to things like antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs). My examples are literally how antisocial behaviour laws have been applied in my area.
That’s fair enough
First Keith came for the noble art of shinobi and I said nothing, because I didn’t own a ninja sword
Then Keith came for the dirtbike riders and there were no ninjas left to speak up for me
Maybe he thinks that if he bans everything sick he can cut the NHS more
Leave it to the ninjas to stay silent.
I see we’re doing “I should be allowed to do donuts in front of the tenements at 2am and also practice my drums at 4am in my apartment with paper thin walls because I am a member of the proletariat unlike my bourgeois neighbours” discourse again.
We live in a society
and the people around you are also proles. Making a space for everyone doesn’t just mean making space for you, it means you also must take consideration for others.
I am allowed to say this because I have had night work. No someone owning a car doesn’t make it okay for you to rev up your harley at shit in the morning. We live in a society where public transport isn’t feasible for a lot of people sadly and that means they need to transport themselves on a motorized vehicle, this is not comparable to doing donuts at shit in the morning. Yes this does mean that your upstairs neighbours shouldn’t let their kids jump around at 7 in the morning as well. No this doesn’t mean you’re allowed to blast drum and bass on a monday at 2am. You are not the sole prole, we all have to go to work. We live in a society that is constructed for the freaks that wake up early and that is bad, but that doesn’t mean you’re allowed to play your damn music so loud at odd hours on weekdays. Yes you are allowed to host a loud party every now and then, so is your neighbours, no you are not allowed to turn your home into an underground nightclub. You can be as noisy as people around you, as long as people around you are considerate. People around you being shitheads doesn’t mean you should be one, because it’s not everyone around you that’s a shithead and so by being a shithead you’re just another shithead surrounding considerate people that don’t like the sound of you banging pots and pans together while fighting with your partner at 3am.
In conclusion: We live in a societyEvery car on earth must be crushed and then immolated before we so much as consider scratching the paint of a single dirtbike
If you use the dirtbike to commute then it’s fine. If you are riding the dirtbike in dirt for fun it’s fine.
But comparing a dirtbike that you ride for fun in an urban environment for some reason, to a mode of transportation that’s necessary for you to feed yourself, is silly (hint: I also think it’s silly to drive a car for fun, especially in an urban environment). Dirt bikes also make a lot more noise than a car. Cars are bad and carcentric infrastructure is bad, but that doesn’t suddenly mean you’re allowed to be an asshat.As a cyclist the dirt bikes are fucking terrifying and they are almost never used for commuting. Just for doing wheelies and showboating.
Obviously cars are my enemy too but I think there’s a fundamental disconnect on this website sometimes where understanding the issue requires actually living in areas where the problem exists.
Edit: another thing that springs to mind is that I feel a certain irony that someone could laugh at something like that old 2016 libertarian debate where Gary Johnson was booed for suggesting that someone should get a license to drive to demonstrate competency while simultaneously mocking anyone for being afraid of these license plate free things zooming past my 18 mph e-bike at 50 mph. (25 mph speed limit btw)
Like nah dude that’s dangerous you should absolutely have that taken away from you and you should be reeducated before you kill someone
I remember when electric scooter rentals popped up and suddenly you had drunken idiots going way too fast the wrong way on cycleways endangering everyone. When I brought this up on hexbear I was deemed a prude. I think there’s a lot of people that are very doctrinal in their thoughts, without really understanding the doctrine. “CARS BAD THEREFORE EVERYTHING NOT CAR GOOD IF YOU DONT LIKE NOTCAR YOURE BAD” isn’t really a good way of going about things.
If any lurkers are interested I’d recommend reading up on “Theories of Practice” or “Practice theory”.
As a pedestrian, they’re terrifying. While not the majority, when there’s a group of them, there’s usually a couple that drive on the sidewalks. They also basically never acknowledge right of way on crosswalks.
The common, nEcEsSaRy, average daily car commuter is my greatest enemy on the road, because the motherfuckers keep crashing into me.
Sure, but you typing necessary in a sarcastic way doesn’t really adress the fact that the car is a necessary mode of transportation for a lot of people.
If you really really need that carlike range, which most people, even in amerikkka, don’t, get a motorcycle. Otherwise, get a bike or one of the dozens of different kinds of electric contraptions which don’t involve bringing thousands of pounds of metal everywhere you go. Defending the use of cars should be treated here exactly the same as defending carnism.
Defending the use of cars should be treated here exactly the same as defending carnism.
I’m not defending anything, I’m explaining why people use cars. It’s important to understand the “whys” of an issue in order to deal with it. People do not use cars because they are bad or evil or hate other commuters. They use the car because it is the most convenient mode of transportation. Going “DESTROY ALL CARS” does nothing to address the underlying issues that make people use cars. It’s also a poor trick to turn the discussion from “don’t do donuts on a dirtbike in a place where a bunch of people are living, you are annoying” to a discussion of “you have fundamentally misunderstood basic urban planning principles.”
If you wish to discuss urban planning instead of common decency, educate yourself on urban planning. Good urban planning is not “You should be allowed to ride a dirtbike everywhere at all times, and any impedement to this is bad.”If you really really need that carlike range, which most people, even in amerikkka, don’t, get a motorcycle.
People have a need to transport themselves. This need is not fulfilled by a motorcycle if you also need to do things such as: Transport children, transport groceries, transport furniture or other large items, travel without being subjected to the elements.
A motorcycle is a good mode of transportation for some, but not all. However a motorcycle has a lot of the same underlying issues that a car has. When people are against car-centric infrastructure, they are not arguing that the infrastructure should still exist, but just be for motorcycles, they are arguing against a society that structures itself around individual motorized vehicles as the common mode of transport.3 months a year the roads here are deadly icy most days. So to go 20 miles to my workplace down the icy motorway (no bike path) should I crash and die on a motorbike or get crushed on a bicycle?
Not to mention that the cheapest used motorbike I can buy here is about 3x the cost of the cheapest used car, I quite literally couldn’t afford one.
Removed by mod
If you really really need that carlike range, which most people, even in amerikkka, don’t,
You are completely out of touch. Not one person I know lives within biking distance of their workplace.
Politics is about punishing people you don’t like
controlled opposition sure looks weird in the uk
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To be fair, some people definitely needs to get their motors crushed, i seen this few times in various places in Poland, shitbags riding in circles for fun on their motors with faulty engines getting REALLY FUCKING LOUD (and i don’t mean those giant harleys or hondas, just ordinary motorbikes). Those weren’t the dirtbikes though.
loud as fuck motorcycles should obviously be banned. noise pollution can actually make you sick and is something poor people are much more likely to suffer from
I love my motorcycle but I do agree with this. I keep the stock exhaust on which obviously complies with the law but if you swap it out for something louder then nobody ever checks and tickets you for it, and that’s an incredibly common mod that people make. Plus you only get one chance to protect your hearing.
Do you have a car?
no?
Oh, okay, in that case you are actually allowed to have opinions about vehicles
The worst thing a biker has ever done to me is be loud. Car drivers constantly try to remove me from the planet for the grand crime of crossing a road. Car drivers need to be crushed inside their car
Cars have run into me on three separate occasions, motorbikes have done me no harm greater than momentary annoyance
I hate the average ordinary car commuter far, far more than I hate hooligans tooling around on their loud motorbikes for fun
shitbags riding in circles for fun
Oh nooooo! Not circles for fun!
Lol there are squads of like 100+ people hooning out on their ATVs and bikes in my city regularly and tbh seems p fun.
It’s far less fun at 3 in the morning when they’re keeping hundreds of people awake for their “fun.”
don’t blame the 3am hoon, blame the 7am boss
But doctor, I am the 7am boss.
Nono, I’m self-employed, I don’t actually have anyone working under me, nor would I expect anyone to get up early if I did.
Is this really a national issue in the UK? I know some people in Philly are real concerned with ATVs, I think 150 got impounded recently, but I can’t imagine anyone other than a mayor even considering running on this. Embarrassing.
What most people think of (dirt bikers riding around countryside being loud and ripping up public paths) isn’t a major problem for most people. It will probably get support from rural or retired folks who don’t have anything else to complain about (i.e. Tory voters). What is an increasing problem is the rise of twist and go “e bikes” that are essentially motorbikes. These are becoming a problem in city centres and pedestrianised zones where they’re not allowed. You also see a lot of teenagers riding them on roads at night, all black clothes, no lights, no helmets. Bit of a nuisance and if you asked the average person in UK I bet they’d have a negative attitude towards it. Maybe this is what Labour are trying to capitalise on? If you ask me we should be making them bike lanes and embracing it but whatever.
I don’t understand capitalism when it’s all “buy these things” them capitalisms leaders are like “I’m gonna ban these things and you can’t buy them anywhere”
I guess it’s just part of putting us in a smaller and smaller box every year
Ban them, and everyone gets rid of them, then lift the ban a few years later. Congratulations you’ve created a new market!
Good point. I guess I’m just puzzled because I grew up around dirt bikes and two tracks, and I live somewhere where you see a lot of them.
Wonder if the next Tory leader will do another “hug a hoodie” campaign.
On that note, have Labour said they’ll ban hoodies yet?
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Literally a party of hall monitors.
LAW AND ORDER!
