Maybe a little. I get defensive when I think people are interpreting what I’m saying in a bad way or in a way I don’t agree with. I’m sorry if I overreacted.
You’re good, I just wanted to make sure it was clear I was not in it to attack you and was doing my best not to go that route. And I can relate, for what it’s worth. I couldn’t begin to count the number of times it has seemed or felt like I’m Sisyphus trying to communicate something; as in, it can feel like I’m trying very hard to go nowhere. Sometimes things just click and sometimes it feels like I’m communicating in another language, and anywhere in-between.
That said, in trying to read closely what you have said most recently, it sounds like we are mostly agreement on the spirit of it, but might disagree in the implementation somewhat. If I try to drill it down to how I feel most strongly about it, I’m thinking about this from a standpoint of individualist vs. collectivist, rugged individual success vs. communal interdependence - and what I primarily take issue with, which may never have been your meaning in the first place, is when advice appears to land on the individualist side of those things. I know that whether it’s myself or someone else, simply having the kind of views we have here does not make us immune to propaganda or make us suddenly clear of all individualist tendencies of thinking that have been instilled in many of us from birth. So some part of me is a bit wary on that being validated further rather than unlearned. And I find that in my understanding of things, dating and romance still appears to be an area heavy with individualist rhetoric and a sort of unspoken “become a better rugged individualist and then you’ll get yours”. I may have overreacted in caution to what you said because of similarities I thought I saw in it relative to other rhetoric I’ve seen.
is when advice appears to land on the individualist side of those things
I totally get that. The internet has been poisoned by the MGTOW and Jordan Peterson shit that any kind of mention of “working on yourself” may remind one of the “clean your room stuff”. And I am not coming from that angle at all.
And I find that in my understanding of things, dating and romance still appears to be an area heavy with individualist rhetoric and a sort of unspoken “become a better rugged individualist and then you’ll get yours”.
I really do avoid stuff like that and that’s not what I meant at all. I tried to emphasize others “seeing value” in a person and used an example of “nice to be around” which in my mind is not a rugged individualist trait (because I assume that rugged individualists are not nice to be around). I tried to convey that it is important for others to “evaluate” one, but that it starts with that one liking themselves. I mean, to me it makes sense that if you don’t like yourself then it’s going to be hard for others to like you. People who do think low of themselves tend to show that to the world (by being more withdrawn, speaking less, not “putting themselves out there”, etc.) so it’s not like others can read another person’s mind, but they can sense when someone is feeling down.
You’re good, I just wanted to make sure it was clear I was not in it to attack you and was doing my best not to go that route. And I can relate, for what it’s worth. I couldn’t begin to count the number of times it has seemed or felt like I’m Sisyphus trying to communicate something; as in, it can feel like I’m trying very hard to go nowhere. Sometimes things just click and sometimes it feels like I’m communicating in another language, and anywhere in-between.
That said, in trying to read closely what you have said most recently, it sounds like we are mostly agreement on the spirit of it, but might disagree in the implementation somewhat. If I try to drill it down to how I feel most strongly about it, I’m thinking about this from a standpoint of individualist vs. collectivist, rugged individual success vs. communal interdependence - and what I primarily take issue with, which may never have been your meaning in the first place, is when advice appears to land on the individualist side of those things. I know that whether it’s myself or someone else, simply having the kind of views we have here does not make us immune to propaganda or make us suddenly clear of all individualist tendencies of thinking that have been instilled in many of us from birth. So some part of me is a bit wary on that being validated further rather than unlearned. And I find that in my understanding of things, dating and romance still appears to be an area heavy with individualist rhetoric and a sort of unspoken “become a better rugged individualist and then you’ll get yours”. I may have overreacted in caution to what you said because of similarities I thought I saw in it relative to other rhetoric I’ve seen.
I totally get that. The internet has been poisoned by the MGTOW and Jordan Peterson shit that any kind of mention of “working on yourself” may remind one of the “clean your room stuff”. And I am not coming from that angle at all.
I really do avoid stuff like that and that’s not what I meant at all. I tried to emphasize others “seeing value” in a person and used an example of “nice to be around” which in my mind is not a rugged individualist trait (because I assume that rugged individualists are not nice to be around). I tried to convey that it is important for others to “evaluate” one, but that it starts with that one liking themselves. I mean, to me it makes sense that if you don’t like yourself then it’s going to be hard for others to like you. People who do think low of themselves tend to show that to the world (by being more withdrawn, speaking less, not “putting themselves out there”, etc.) so it’s not like others can read another person’s mind, but they can sense when someone is feeling down.