The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
In several states registering a car automatically registers you to vote… per https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_registration,
With specific examples of Delaware, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, California, and Oregon.
Per https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state
None of which proves legal status in the USA.
And since it’s automatic…
Delaware is the only one that actually consistently checks ID out of the ones called out on that page. You claim they’ll get caught and it will be tricky. Except you can obtain valid IDs… What is there to be caught? You can obtain a license or ID without being a citizen https://www.immigrationhelp.org/learning-center/drivers-licenses-for-immigrants. So none of this even matters. The person at the polls checking your ID doesn’t have a clue if you’re a citizen or not.
For fuck’s sake dude, did you even read what you posted? An undocumented immigrant isn’t going to be an eligible voter and won’t be able to register. The rest of your screed is based on a false premise.
For fuck’s sake dude! I did and do read! I hope you do as well. Clearly you haven’t thus-far.
You’ve not been able to show any risk at all to any people for voting while ineligible.
If you believe that only eligible voters can register and 100% of ineligible voters are caught then you’re delusional. I worked on a college campus during the voting registration pushes by several organizations. I’ve seen students who are here on student visa’s successfully register to vote. Now you think an automatic process will somehow be better? No part of registering my car proves I’m a citizen. Why would voter registration be attached to this process at all?
Personal anecdotes aren’t super convincing. People can fill out whatever paperwork they want. That doesn’t mean any of it gets approved.
The person at the polls knows if you’re registered or not. To register you need to be a citizen.
I’ve told you what the risk is, you just don’t want to hear it.
I don’t have to show an ID to vote, but I have to tell the person there my name and address. If someone else wants to vote as me it’s going to look pretty funny when the name has already been checked.
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation
Please find me “deportation” on this list of actual cases found where illegal aliens voted. You didn’t tell me any risk and even the “risks” on this page is all “if convicted”. You live in some fantasy world where you think everyone gets caught for everything and that voter registration is always 100% accurate. You can literally search for cases where people have registered perfectly fine but shouldn’t have been allowed to (one such example since I have it ready from another post. https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144265521/florida-voter-fraud-cases-prosecution-update). To live under some fantasy that this doesn’t happen just show how disingenuous you are on the matter. The sheer numbers by which all this stuff happens should tell you that there is no real risk… illegal aliens are voting and most likely never get caught.
Ok, so you just proved what people risk by voting illegally and that they get caught for doing so:
You’ve answered your own question and didn’t even need my help in the first place.
The Florida case is about felons and not relevant to a discussion specifically about non-citizens.
Not according to any of the statistics.
So a case about a voting card being issued to somebody isn’t relevant to a group of individuals who shouldn’t have cards issued either?
I’m sorry, but you’re beyond my help if you can’t think of how that might apply.
Callous self-correctness loving asses with I ill-equipped imaginations.
What risks does the illegal face in any action that exposes them to discovery in our empathy starved, systemic abusing system?
The same one that keeps them walking amongst a populace that both hates them and loves to exploit them…
The fact that whatever the hell it was they ran from and risked for getting in illegally into the US despite all the horrors that itself brings was actually a
worsebetter choice than putting up with living with dumbass rhetoric like this.These are people seeking a life, not willing political pawns coming here to give a fuck about our game of thrones.
They’re not being deported. Click the first link. ctrl+f “deport”. Notice there’s 0 results. Deportation is not a risk for a federal crime for illegally voting.
There is no risk of them being returned to whatever you seem to think they’re running from.
Deportation is absolutely a risk for unlawful voting.
If the non-citizen is here unlawfully, they are always subject to deportation if ICE becomes aware of them, which may happen by referral during a criminal prosecution.
Even if they are here lawfully, they become deportable if they vote unlawfully per 8 USC 1227(6)(A): “Any alien who has voted in violation of any Federal, State, or local constitutional provision, statute, ordinance, or regulation is deportable.”
The reason “deportation” is not mentioned in the press release you cite is because removal is a separate proceeding, not part of the criminal proceeding (which is what the press release is about). They have to be convicted of the crime first, and then removal proceedings can be initiated.
Even if removal proceedings are not brought against them for some reason, they will still potentially suffer consequences for a conviction (in addition to the criminal punishment). For example, unlawful voting may prevent naturalization of a lawful non-citizen under 8 USC 1427 because they do not have the requisite good moral character.
Moreover, if they falsified documents to vote unlawfully, they may be found to have committed an aggravated felony, which means they face expedited removal proceedings, they can never get a green card, never become naturalized, can not be eligible for asylum, and can never reenter the US. See 8 USC 1158, 1182, & 1228.
As a MN resident I was curious so I looked at MN practices
Fact sheet from MN House
See Step 2? I’m not gonna go state by state, but maybe you should before assuming they all register everyone to vote regardless of eligibility.
And yeah, in MN I don’t show my ID at the polls. I think they should change that. But I also won’t be able to vote if they don’t have my name on the list at my polling place, or if someone has already voted under my name. It’s hard for an ineligible voter to vote, and if they do, there’s a high chance of detection.
Do you think there’s a systematic effort to have ineligible voters vote on behalf of registered voters in places that don’t check ID, with a database of registered-but-definitely-not-voting people, and their associated polling place? If so, have you seen any evidence of it?
This was never the point I was addressing. The original post claimed that there’s some magical risk for an illegal alien to attempt to vote. I’m calling that out specifically. There is no risk. You can walk into any place and attempt to vote. Nobody is going to stop you ESPECIALLY places that do not bother checking IDs.
The point I’m making that you’re responding to here is more along the lines of “governments already suck at their job… some people will probably even be automatically registered to vote even when ineligible”, which just makes the problem worse. My counter comment to yours would be “so you think nobody was ever accidentally automatically registered via this process?”
Is the risk of detection, prosecution, and jail or deportation not enough? I don’t see how you consider that “no risk.”
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation
Didn’t deter these people. And I don’t see deportation on that list for some reason. Actually it’s not even on the federal charges either. Notice also that this article is written in 2020… for the 2016 election.
Do you truly believe that others aren’t voting and that they aren’t making it through the “checks”. There’s literally millions in the USA at this point with the status of “illegal alien”. It’s just a numbers game at some point. People will vote, and some/many will make it through for one reason or another.
Hell proving the point more about the government registration systems being typical government garbage…
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144265521/florida-voter-fraud-cases-prosecution-update
So they issued her a card. This person got screwed because they tried to do things right and the system just did what it does… fuck up. How do you track any illegal aliens who may be issued voter registrations? They’re kind of living off the books at some point anyway right? It’s not like you can just show up and find them at where they report to live/work (remember they’re not supposed to work)…
These same approvals that just “work” out of nowhere also track with student visa cases I’ve seen on college campuses. They register, somehow they’re approved and get a card in the mail.
So are you saying that in these cases, where voter fraud was detected and people were charged for it, they took “no risk”? Maybe what you’re really trying to say is that regardless of what the risk of there needs to be zero chance of ineligible voters accidentally voting?
I mean, I think i get your viewpoint. There are people who “slip through the cracks” and do vote when they aren’t eligible, and they shouldn’t. I don’t deny that and I think it would be foolish to deny that any ineligible voter has ever voted.
But at the same time you seem to have a fatalistic view of the systems that are supposed to enforce those rules. Like most laws, deterrence is in the consequences of being caught and convicted. But it seems that’s not enough? And government systems don’t work, so we can’t use those to try to enforce voter eligibility. But how do we vote? Are you really just advocating for voter ID? (which, fwiw, I agree with as I indicated previously) but you also have cast doubt on how well that works. So what would work, in your view?
They’re not being deported (absent from the list). They can’t legally work… so you can’t take money from them (making the fines pointless). The most you can do is put them in prison according to the “if convicted” list. I’m not sure that they care all that much about that in general if they’re coming from countries where you can’t find food or housing… prison might be okay and acceptable to them outright.
I’m not sure. And I never claimed to have an answer. But believing that some “nebulous” risk that nobody can define is stopping it from happening just isn’t a sane belief. It’s happening. To what scale? I have no idea either.
At the bare minimum I’d like deportation to be on the list for those we catch doing something that’s illegal. That previous article should have had all of those people removed from the USA IMO.
I’m more worried that somebody out there told an illegal alien that they could vote. Some stage in that process is either a lot of malice… or a lot of stupidity. Either way that’s something that could/should be fixed if it’s at all possible to.
Edit:
To elaborate on this as well… We don’t have that much free prison space anyway… And I would even propose that many states don’t want prison time for those who commit non-violent crimes anyway. This public sentiment severely limits the perception of going to jail for voting illegally as well.
Like I said in a previous response to you, removal is definitely on the list for unlawful voting. It is just a separate proceeding from the criminal prosecution. If prison time is warranted for a crime, time is typically served before removal proceedings are initiated.
Here is a case where a green card holder was being deported when, at least according to her, she mistakenly believed she was allowed to vote when she could not: https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/peru-native-who-voted-illegally-two-u-s-elections-now-n746721
If her account is true, that looks like a lot of ignorance on both sides to me, not necessarily malice or gross stupidity.