The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
As a MN resident I was curious so I looked at MN practices
Fact sheet from MN House
See Step 2? I’m not gonna go state by state, but maybe you should before assuming they all register everyone to vote regardless of eligibility.
And yeah, in MN I don’t show my ID at the polls. I think they should change that. But I also won’t be able to vote if they don’t have my name on the list at my polling place, or if someone has already voted under my name. It’s hard for an ineligible voter to vote, and if they do, there’s a high chance of detection.
Do you think there’s a systematic effort to have ineligible voters vote on behalf of registered voters in places that don’t check ID, with a database of registered-but-definitely-not-voting people, and their associated polling place? If so, have you seen any evidence of it?
This was never the point I was addressing. The original post claimed that there’s some magical risk for an illegal alien to attempt to vote. I’m calling that out specifically. There is no risk. You can walk into any place and attempt to vote. Nobody is going to stop you ESPECIALLY places that do not bother checking IDs.
The point I’m making that you’re responding to here is more along the lines of “governments already suck at their job… some people will probably even be automatically registered to vote even when ineligible”, which just makes the problem worse. My counter comment to yours would be “so you think nobody was ever accidentally automatically registered via this process?”
Is the risk of detection, prosecution, and jail or deportation not enough? I don’t see how you consider that “no risk.”
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation
Didn’t deter these people. And I don’t see deportation on that list for some reason. Actually it’s not even on the federal charges either. Notice also that this article is written in 2020… for the 2016 election.
Do you truly believe that others aren’t voting and that they aren’t making it through the “checks”. There’s literally millions in the USA at this point with the status of “illegal alien”. It’s just a numbers game at some point. People will vote, and some/many will make it through for one reason or another.
Hell proving the point more about the government registration systems being typical government garbage…
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144265521/florida-voter-fraud-cases-prosecution-update
So they issued her a card. This person got screwed because they tried to do things right and the system just did what it does… fuck up. How do you track any illegal aliens who may be issued voter registrations? They’re kind of living off the books at some point anyway right? It’s not like you can just show up and find them at where they report to live/work (remember they’re not supposed to work)…
These same approvals that just “work” out of nowhere also track with student visa cases I’ve seen on college campuses. They register, somehow they’re approved and get a card in the mail.
So are you saying that in these cases, where voter fraud was detected and people were charged for it, they took “no risk”? Maybe what you’re really trying to say is that regardless of what the risk of there needs to be zero chance of ineligible voters accidentally voting?
I mean, I think i get your viewpoint. There are people who “slip through the cracks” and do vote when they aren’t eligible, and they shouldn’t. I don’t deny that and I think it would be foolish to deny that any ineligible voter has ever voted.
But at the same time you seem to have a fatalistic view of the systems that are supposed to enforce those rules. Like most laws, deterrence is in the consequences of being caught and convicted. But it seems that’s not enough? And government systems don’t work, so we can’t use those to try to enforce voter eligibility. But how do we vote? Are you really just advocating for voter ID? (which, fwiw, I agree with as I indicated previously) but you also have cast doubt on how well that works. So what would work, in your view?
They’re not being deported (absent from the list). They can’t legally work… so you can’t take money from them (making the fines pointless). The most you can do is put them in prison according to the “if convicted” list. I’m not sure that they care all that much about that in general if they’re coming from countries where you can’t find food or housing… prison might be okay and acceptable to them outright.
I’m not sure. And I never claimed to have an answer. But believing that some “nebulous” risk that nobody can define is stopping it from happening just isn’t a sane belief. It’s happening. To what scale? I have no idea either.
At the bare minimum I’d like deportation to be on the list for those we catch doing something that’s illegal. That previous article should have had all of those people removed from the USA IMO.
I’m more worried that somebody out there told an illegal alien that they could vote. Some stage in that process is either a lot of malice… or a lot of stupidity. Either way that’s something that could/should be fixed if it’s at all possible to.
Edit:
To elaborate on this as well… We don’t have that much free prison space anyway… And I would even propose that many states don’t want prison time for those who commit non-violent crimes anyway. This public sentiment severely limits the perception of going to jail for voting illegally as well.
Like I said in a previous response to you, removal is definitely on the list for unlawful voting. It is just a separate proceeding from the criminal prosecution. If prison time is warranted for a crime, time is typically served before removal proceedings are initiated.
Here is a case where a green card holder was being deported when, at least according to her, she mistakenly believed she was allowed to vote when she could not: https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/peru-native-who-voted-illegally-two-u-s-elections-now-n746721
If her account is true, that looks like a lot of ignorance on both sides to me, not necessarily malice or gross stupidity.