The Israeli rescue service Zaka says its paramedics removed more than 260 bodies from a music festival that came under attack by Hamas militants.

The total figure of bodies found is expected to be higher, as other paramedic teams were also working in the area and Zaka added that the bodies “haven’t all been collected yet”.

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out. Many hid in nearby fruit orchards or were gunned down as they fled.

  • there1snospoon@ttrpg.network
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    148
    arrow-down
    89
    ·
    9 months ago

    I had been pretty much on the Palestinian side of the conflict for some time.

    This attack has absolutely burnt any goodwill I had for the Palestinian cause. If Mexico attacked America in this manner, we would likely own everything south of the Gulf of California.

    I cannot fathom what Hamas thought would come of this.

    • NAXLAB@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      187
      arrow-down
      34
      ·
      9 months ago

      “Palestine” is not the one that did this. Hamas is a terrorist group, and their actions do not justify the fact that the Israeli government operates an apartheid state where people are given rights, status, and property on the basis of race, and also participates in the slaughter of innocent people.

      This isn’t a “whoever’s worse should lose” situation. Israel commits human rights violations and Hamas is a terrorist group.

      • Nevoic@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        I hate the phrasing “terrorist group” here. Not because what happened here wasn’t an atrocity, but because people generally refuse to call state-backed violence “terrorist” violence. The word terrorism is incredibly broad, easily describing a ton of things Israel does. Yet, we refuse to call them a terrorist organization.

        Israel slaughtered hundreds of protesters 4 years ago in Gaza.

        Israel and Egypt have been blockading the Gaza strip in violation of the GCIV since 2007.

        In 2014, a triple-homicide was committed. Israel claimed it was Hamas, and arrested hundreds of Palestinians. Hamas sent rockets into Israel, killing 2 people, and Israel initiated Operation Protective Edge, killing thousands of Palestinians.

        Not to mention the entire Israel-Palestine conflict can be traced back about 100 years, where imperialist Britain endorsed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine in the Balfour Declaration. Eventually leading to the formation of Israel in the late 40s and the subsequent ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, forcing nearly a million natives to move to make way for Israel.

        “terrorism” is politically charged language with the intent of making us sympathize with a certain side. Of course we’ll side with the “Israel state” and against the “Hamas terrorist group”. The language used to describe these groups already prescribes how we should view them. Western media will never describe Israel’s atrocities as terrorist actions, so people will dismiss the slaughter of tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinians as “just war”.

      • BB69@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        80
        arrow-down
        73
        ·
        9 months ago

        Hamas is the governing body of Palestine.

        It was Palestine who did this.

        • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          77
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          Strictly speaking, it’s the governing body of Gaza, which hasn’t held elections in well over a decade. The West Bank is governed by the party Fatah, which is much less militant.

          There is, however, the awkward truth that the West Bank has also not held elections in a long time, precisely because Hamas would probably win them.

        • Jaderick@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          62
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          By this logic all Iranians support their current Islamist government, which everyone and their mother knows to not be true.

          • BB69@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            9 months ago

            My government doesn’t have a 75% approval rating like Hamas does.

          • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            9 months ago

            Did Germany support everything the Nazis did? No, not every citizen, but it was enough support to give Hitler his rise to power and descend into WWII.

            Did Afghanistan support everything the Taliban did? No, but war was the only response to 9/11.

            In the end, war sucks and many innocent people will be caught in the crossfire. But, I don’t see any other end result out of this. Israel has been so beaten down by terrorist attacks and hostility since literally the day the country was formed that war is the only way forward. They have tried every other option for the last 50 years.

            • MrBusinessMan@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              9 months ago

              So in the end, every Israeli citizen is responsible for all of this violence, since it’s their government doing the ethnic cleansing and apartheid. They actually elected the fascists who have a million times more power than Hamas to end all of this, so every Israeli is basically evil. Thanks for clearing that up for us!

          • Ulv@feddit.nu
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            29
            ·
            9 months ago

            No but i still am part of my country. Every thing my government does represents my country and therefore me.

              • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                9 months ago

                That’s why you revolt and form revolutions. But, when a majority of the country is on the wrong side, that becomes the public face of the country.

                • can@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Not what I’m saying. If my government does something I disagree with then it’s not really representing me.

                  • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    9
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    That’s not how representation works. You don’t get to cherry pick what you like and don’t, nice fucking try though?

            • dx1@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              Everything my government does represents me, even when it doesn’t represent me at all. Actually, nevermind.

        • njm1314@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          34
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Hamas is the governing body of Gaza. They don’t control the West Bank where the majority of Palestinians live.

        • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          23
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          9 months ago

          I see your intent here but you’re going to have to say you killed all the Iraqis and Afghanis who didn’t deserve to die in our wars in the middle east, if you’re going to say Palestine is the one who did this.

          Sometimes bodies meant to represent and govern in fact do not represent while they govern.

          • TheYear2525@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            24
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            you’re going to have to say you killed

            No, to be consistent they’d have to say America killed them. No need to switch from blaming a country to blaming an individual citizen.

            I think a majority of Americans would admit America killed them.

            • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              17
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              I think it’s quite obvious they were using the royal ‘you’, as in America (almost every American assumes everyone else is also American in the internet unless otherwise stated).

              And they’re right, American soldiers did unspeakable things in Afghanistan and Iraq, but that doesn’t mean all Americans are responsible for the decisions those soldiers made.

                • can@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  I do hope you’ll appreciate that everyone isn’t American though and assuming any given poster is is borderline insulting.

                  • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    9 months ago

                    Oh well. There’s a lot of big problems in the world and that’s not fucking one of them to me so carry on.

                    I’m going to let you be a big boy and choose whether you want to be insulted or not, I don’t care either way, it’s YOUR choice.

            • dx1@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Forget about consistency, this is just flat out incorrect. You’re trying to equate two different distinct sets of people, one of which contains the other.

              Group A (superset) includes Bob, Alice, Sue, Mike, Cole, Anthony, Tony, Joanna, and Jerry.

              Group B (subset #1) includes Bob, Alice, Sue, Mike. They voted for Anthony to run group A and received a majority, so Anthony assumed power.

              Group C (subset #2) includes Anthony, Sue, Mike, and Joanna. They form a government and military over/of group A. They kill a bunch of people.

              Group C is NOT EQUAL TO group A. Period. No argument, no “but what if”, they are two different groups. Note that Cole, Tony and Jerry (group D) are flatly not represented in any way by the actions of group C.

      • Cryptic Fawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        9 months ago

        “Palestine” is not the one that did this.

        Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas. They allowed this shit to fester.

    • falconhoof@artemis.camp
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      127
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      9 months ago

      We shouldn’t conflate the people of Isreal with the extremist State of Isreal, we shouldn’t conflate the people of Palestine with Hamas. Atrocities have been committed on both sides and each one is an atrocity, but the fact remains that the Palestinian people are living under an apartheid and therefore should be supported despite acts committed by extremists in it’s name. This situation shouldn’t be reduced to a simplistic one-sided team sport. Palestine still needs liberating.

      • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        48
        ·
        9 months ago

        It’s difficult to not conflate them with hammas when 80% supprts them and celebrated the attack

            • Solar Bear@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              You expect me to believe you would simply leave behind the place you were born and all of your loved ones?

              • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                edit-2
                9 months ago

                Already did so actually and it wasn’t even comparable to the situation in gaza so yes , I would definitely leave … I don’t care if you don’t believe me.

                Edit: actually you can search my comments from before the recent attacks and find a few that support the fact i am an expatriate.

                • Solar Bear@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Fair enough. From what country are you a refugee, if you don’t mind me asking?

                  • 5BC2E7@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    9 months ago

                    I’ll get back to you once you dismiss the fantasy version of the discussion we are having and ask a question in line with what we have actually said

                    edit: in case you are really confused, you said you didn’t believe I could leave , no one said i am a refugee…

            • MrBusinessMan@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              "Sorry bucko gate is locked, if you even get too close to it an Israeli sniper shoots you in the knee (be grateful next time it’s the head!). Get back in the cage! "

              Ok, now what do you do?

            • dx1@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              My source is a comprehensive poll covering a bunch of different topics. Most centrally:

              If new parliamentary elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 64% say they would participate in them, and among these participants, Fateh receives 36%, Hamas’ Change and Reform 34%, all other lists combined 9%, and 21% say they have not yet decided whom they will vote for. Three months ago, vote for Hamas stood at 34% and Fatah at 33%. Vote for Hamas in the Gaza Strip stands today at 44% (compared to 44% three months ago) and for Fateh at 32% (compared to 28% three months ago). In the West Bank, vote for Hamas stands at 24% (compared to 25% three months ago) and Fatah at 40% (compared to 34% three months ago).

              A little over a quarter (27%) believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people today while 24% believe that Fateh under the leadership of Abbas is more deserving; 44% believe both are unworthy of representation and leadership. Three months ago, 31% said Hamas is the most deserving, 21% said Fateh led by Abbas is the most deserving, and 43% said both are unworthy of representation and leadership.

              which isn’t even close to 80% no matter how you look at it.

              Your NBC News one says this:

              The group’s popularity grew after a two-week conflict with Israel in 2021, with roughly 75% of those polled viewing Hamas as safeguarding the Al-Aqsa Mosque and other Muslim holy sites in East Jerusalem.

              which is a very different thing than general approval…

    • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      54
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      9 months ago

      Hamas isn’t a rational actor fighting for a free Palestine; their one and only goal - literally written into their charter - is to eradicate every Jew from the land by force.

      Every Jew they kill is a victory for them; there’s nothing more to it.

    • tiny_tina_@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      47
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      9 months ago

      Dont forget the paraded naked woman that was spit on by people. Hamas are savages who are funded by Iran

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      9 months ago

      This was an Iranian funded terrorist group, not a Palestinian liberation group. They claim to help the latter, but this attack makes it obvious they don’t give a shit about Palestinians, they just sent to hurt Israelis. Everyone is better off if the group can be destroyed.

    • esc27@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      I’m starting to wonder if that is the point. Groups like Hamas thrive on anger and conflict.

    • sederx@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      so 0.05% of the population can make you change your political view about 2 millions people(plus people in west bank because fuck em right?)

      then you never supported a free palestine

    • MrBusinessMan@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      9 months ago

      You support Palestine while they do nothing and go like sheep to the slaughter. Once they fight back to avoid their own anhilation you no longer support them. In the end, you support genocide.