If you think fronting the cost of condoms for teenagers is expensive, wait till you see how much it costs the state to provide services for a single teen mother
What is up with Newsome vetoing all this shit suddenly?
Presumably getting ready to launch his own presidential bid, so he needs to court the center by appearing more moderate.
Or the opposing side trying to make him look bad. California still sets the standards for a lot of rules that we’d be better off with the rest of the country copying.
Yeah honestly it seems like a targeted media blitz more than anything. If you read the actual article, most of his vetos are done for very good reasons - but they’re all being posted with reductive headlines
Teens having Kids cost more than condoms
Frankly, when I was in high school - cost was never the issue in whether a couple used condoms, and even in my relatively conservative area, there were local programs that would give out free condoms if you cared enough to look
Better sex education would go a much longer way imo - because even in California our sex Ed (this was like a decade ago, so maybe it’s changed) was full of “abstinence only” garbage - thankfully the teachers were usually smart enough to go off book and give realistic advice/answers
if you cared enough to look
Big if. To me it seems worthwhile to have them easily accessible so that teens would be carrying them around. Limits the amount of pre-planning needed
Did she go to a private school?
What was the cost associated with banning caste discrimination and decriminalizing mushrooms?
The caste one he argued that there are already laws in place that cover it, and that what we need instead is to increase education about these existing laws and how they can be used to prevent caste discrimination. There is no point in creating another law that does the exact same thing as existing anti discrimination laws.
For decriminalizing mushrooms he argued that the bill doesn’t actually include any provisions for how the medical usage can be implemented or how the required infrastructure can be put in place. When CA was medical only for weed it was frankly a shit show for a long while because it was highly unclear what was actually allowed and what wasn’t, he didn’t want a repeat.
Whether you agree with either of those arguments is an entirely different question, but the titles of been seeing make it seem like he’s just shooting them down for fun - hence my suspicion that this is astroturfing.
One of two things is true - either over the last week he’s inexplicably gotten a ton of really controversial bills crossing his desk that are all more newsworthy than anything else over the last few years, and he vetoed every single one. Or half-assed bills like these pass this desk all the time and get vetoed pending better solutions, and they’re only now getting overblown coverage as part of a smear campaign. Frankly the latter seems more likely
This never actually works. The Democratic party is a center eight party that only looks left.because the oteht major party are fucking crazy terrorists
LOOOOOOOLOLOLOL
The CA legislature passed a buttload of bills right before adjourning, so he’s working his way through them now. Plus, CA has a budget deficit, so stuff that costs money has to be more carefully considered - free condoms are a worthwhile thing, but then the question becomes what do you cut instead? It’s not always an easy question.
How much do they actually expect these to cost? How about they cancel fireworks at the next sports event. That’d probably cover it
California state government doesn’t pay for fireworks.
How much would prohibiting caste discrimination or decriminalizing psilocybin increase the deficit?
That’s the wrong question.
“How can this law be exploited.” Or “does it make sense to put another law on the books if this is already addressed with existing laws”
If you take the specified reason, then it’s explicitly cited as reason #2. But the backlash is manufactured by progressives and exploited by conservatives to incubate in-fighting. Don’t fall for it.
“You are forbidden from asking questions we don’t like. Those are wrong questions. Being anything shy of worshipful every time your party fails you is working with conservatives because we say so. Now excuse us while we capitulate to conservatives and order you to shut up and be happy about it again.”
You’re missing the fire for the smoke, and it’s sad how easily progressives fall for it every time
Ensign_Crab, we have a fundraising deadline at midnight tonight, and we’re short $2178! Will you pledge $31 to help bring us over the line?
That sounds like a Wrong Question to me.
Well, he said he vetoed the caste discrimination one because it’s already covered by existing laws, so they don’t need a new one. No clue about the psilocybin. I must have missed that one among the 87 articles about each individual veto that have been posted in the last couple of days.
Well, he said he vetoed the caste discrimination one because it’s already covered by existing laws, so they don’t need a new one
“We don’t need laws prohibiting discrimination against [minority]! They’re just whining about nothing because our existing laws cover them!”
I must have missed that one among the 87 articles about each individual veto that have been posted in the last couple of days.
A lot of unconvincing excuses to keep straight, huh?
I mean, yeah, if it’s already prohibited under an existing law, you generally don’t need another one. That’s how laws work, and people do a fair amount of work to remove outdated and duplicate laws because it makes everyone’s job harder when you have to weed through that.
You know what’s so much more expensive? Teenagers having babies. That shit is expensive for everyone. Having a child’s life ruined and forced to raise a child into another ill prepared adult. Costs society lots of money.
I mean yeah but Cali is an abortion rights state so those factors are less present in the decision than they would be elsewhere
Abortions don’t just fall out of the sky. First trimester abortions are in the 300-900 range, and second trimester round about 1k-2k. Just comparing the raw cost of the procedure and omitting opportunity costs from recovery time and additional cost from complications, rubbers are real cheap.
Not to mention emotional cost.
Republican assholes always frame abortions as this whimsical thing women do, between errands.
It’s very emotionally draining, often difficult decision even if you are sure you don’t want / can’t afford a kid.
The anti-choice movement has twisted this whole discussion so badly we’re not even looking at the people most affected by all of this.
Yes but I was speaking relative to states where you can’t get that. This would be a much more egregious decision in a state like Texas where it seems to be the prevailing legal theory that a woman is expected to die rather than have access to even a top expense abortion.
Not to mention how early term abortion pills will likely reduce such financial and opportunity costs.
You mean a women’s rights state? A state where women have rights over their bodies?
Not getting pregnant is the best scenario for those that aren’t ready for children. Despite easy access to abortion services some may feel guilt about ending a pregnancy early and have the child because it’s the “right thing to do” even though it may lead to a terrible quality of life for mother and child.
Yes but my point was that in California, that choice, as hard as it is, is still available to them. A decision such as this would be much more egregious in Texas where even that hard decision is not available to them.
I think the point here is to prevent abortions. Nobody wants to have an abortion.
Yeah, I know that, my point is that it’s in California instead of a state like Texas where someone doesn’t even get that.
Just FYI: most family planning centers, like Planned Parenthood, hospitals and birthing clinics already give out free condoms to anyone who asks. That’s where I was getting mine when I was a teenager.
They give you bags stuffed to the brim!!! It looks like the picture lol. Nobody there wants unwanted pregnancies.
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Then I got magnums some time later and it was a lot more enjoyable.
“Whoops. I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong!”
“here’s a story whose only link is the word condom, I just want everyone to hear me say I’ve got a massive dick. That is all.”
I just want everyone to hear me say I’ve got a massive dick.
Either that, or he’s selling a certain brand of condoms. /shrug
He’s not selling them to California that’s for sure. Too expensive.
It was a nationwide advertisement.
Tried to put one on one night for sexy times and it hurt.
So if you have a pp with bigger girth
So even when you win the lottery, there’s a price to be paid.
We need a left leaning non-capitalist party in this country. Two capitalist parties are the problem, and neither can ever be the solution.
There was a chart here posted a few days ago that listed countries by happiness. I think Norway and some other countries that are not considered capitalist were near the top. Even with those countries, something like 20-25% were still not happy. That is a large percent. Imagine if the world put just 10% of the effort going into profiting of of AI into figuring out what makes humans happy and implementing it.
You’ll find pretty much all of the Scandinavian countries up there. Technically Social Capitalist kinda stuff. The problem is the population disparity, income disparity, and number of social services between them and the US. Canada is much the same though pretty far on the Capitalism side of things.
Yeah, it would be massively misrepresenting the situation to call Scandi/Nordic countries as anything else than capitalist. Social democratic would be the word but even that’s not strictly the case.
Norway is mixed market capitalist, like most developed countries. They do have a strong welfare system, though. I’d imagine it’s similar in the other countries in the list you mention too, but I’d have to see what they are.
The majority of wealth — excluding homes — in Norway is held in its sovereign wealth fund. This fund is invested in a diversified set of foreign and domestic industries. If we can’t call a country in which the majority of wealth is held in collectively owned means of production, socialist. What even is socialism?
Wealth is definitely a strong element. It’s easy to forget that socialism is just democratic ownership of the economy, not just “workers owning the means of production” because that forgets all the people who can’t work. In addition, these elements add to Norway’s status as a mixed economy with market socialist elements:
- 30% of the domestic stock market is owned by the Norwegian state
- They operate 70+ state owned enterprises (SOEs), including a national bank and telecom
- Norway has 50% union density, which is pretty high compared to the rest of the world
- They have works councils where workers get 33%(?) of the seats on the board of larger corporations
- 20% of Norways population lives in democratically owned housing (housing coops), originally funded by the government but now growing their membership faster than the population is growing
- Norway uses Georgist-style taxes on land (natural resources - oil, aquafarms, hydropower, wind energy) because no one worked for the creation of those natural resources hence a good cut of the profits should belong to the people
When you compare these to China, you’ll notice that a so-called communist country gets beaten on many of these in relative terms, which is a strong case for Norway being quite socialist (obviously they also have capitalism hence the “mixed economy” part, before someone goes “well actually”)
A socialist system would also feature government officials vetoing spending on the basis of cost. If you think about it, there would be even more such instances, since a socialist government has a larger say on economic questions.
Economic systems are aimed at resolving the question of how to allocate scarce resources. Switching from “capitalist” to “socialist” does not make the allocation problem go away. It only changes who makes the decisions.
And the results of those decisions would probably not be what you seem to be expecting. Real world experience shows that socialist countries tend to allocate more resources to things like heavy industry, and fewer resources to consumer goods like, say, condoms for students.
A socialist system would also feature government officials vetoing spending on the basis of cost. If you think about it, there would be even more such instances, since a socialist government has a larger say on economic questions.
Not necessarily, allow me to give a different perspective. Market socialists usually argue in favour of socialised organisations like cooperatives and unions having more power. Socialism doesn’t necessarily equal an all powerful control economy, you can marketise elements in a humane way. In Sweden, for example, the unions handle unemployment benefits through what’s known as a Ghent system[1]. In Norway, 20% of housing is democratically owned through housing coops that were originally funded by the government (but that stopped a few decades ago) and it’s still growing faster than the population itself is, so given enough time Norway will eventually be all democratically owned housing. In Finland, something like 90%+ of the population is a member in democratically owned grocery shops (consumer coops), where anyone can stand in elections for managerial positions - yes, you can literally be democratically elected a manager in a coop shop.
Also, anecdotally, when I went to high school in Norway I was offered free condoms. This is also the case in Sweden and Finland, now that I look it up.
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Those are all capitalist countries though. The particular coop ownership in question feels 99% of the time like a regular loyalty program, at least to me.
Yes, but “capitalist country” doesn’t paint the full picture. You’re not either capitalist or socialist, you can be both - you can have elements of both. Most of today’s socialist countries are market socialist, e.g. Cuba allows small businesses, and that is a capitalist element within their socialist economy. Similarly the Nordics combine market socialist elements with capitalist ones, for example through worker board representation, unionisation, state owned enterprises, social wealth funds, taxing natural resources, and other forms of coops.
I’d say look into what you can vote on in your coop and make sure to partake in the democratic elements that it has, because it’s more than just a loyalty programme. Finnish consumer coops are probably some of the best in the world - the UK’s grocery coop pales in comparison in what rights you have and is closer to just a loyalty programme, but you can still vote on issues in the UK Coop.
It’s not 100% one or another but Nordic countries are without a doubt capitalist countries. The system is capitalism with socialism influenced (social democratic) policies, rather than (market) socialism with some market policies mixed in. That’s what I mean. They aren’t really an example to use to go against capitalism wholly as a system but rather an example of working within capitalism, eg. social democraticism.
I’d say look into what you can vote on in your coop and make sure to partake in the democratic elements that it has, because it’s more than just a loyalty programme.
Almost nobody cares since it just feels like a loyalty program with there being an occasional election that very few take part in. Otherwise coop stores just feel like regular old stores and hypermarkets. I guess it’s better if nothing else than on principle but day-to-day (or even year-to-year really), it doesn’t really differ from our other store chains.
There are genuine disagreements within academic circles at which point you tip over into a market/democratic socialist economy. Maybe Finland isn’t as socialist as Norway, but there are economists who argue that the tipping point is at 60-75% of wealth owned by a democratic government, and Norway currently sits at 65%.[3]
We keep being told the Nordics are capitalist, but we beat China on many of their “socialist” metrics, and yet they call themselves socialist. There’s more nuance to it and I don’t think we should so readily just label the Nordics as “capitalist”. Especially not when “social democracy” itself was born out of Orthodox Marxism and was seen as a market-based wing of socialism focused on a peaceful transition to socialism[2]. The last socialist PM of Sweden (who was assassinated), Olof Palme, quite literally called himself a “democratic socialist” while championing “social democracy”[1].
Market socialism is also not in opposition to social democracy, it is just a descriptor of a specific kind of socialism, the Nordics have elements of social democracy, democratic socialism, and market socialism all at once.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQqZ8btcbyE
[2] “Social democracy is defined as one of many socialist traditions. As a political movement, it aims to achieve socialism through gradual and democratic means.”, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
[3] I can provide a source here if you want it, but policy analyst Matt Bruenig covers it in one of his videos https://www.youtube.com/@Matt_Bruenig/videosChina calling themselves socialist I think is one big part of the issue of making people unsure of what socialism actually is. Nordic countries are very much in the way of “make capitalism better” and self-describe as capitalist, with nobody I think thinking we are socialist.
Peaceful transition to socialism used to be the goal but with time fewer and fewer parties actually want that instead of just softer capitalism. I don’t think it has been the stated goal of Finnish social democrats in quite a while, definitely hasn’t been any sort of actual goal for a long time.
Socialism seems to be in the sort of funny position where Nordics are sometimes used as an example of socialism because it shows that they’re doing well and what we traditionally call “socialist states” aren’t socialist because they’re not something a lot of people see as great inspirations. It does a lot to muddy the waters.
Shrug. Beats capitalism.
In CA we need such a party to run in deep blue seats.where they can easily get more votes than the Republicans
We have a voteable communist party in my country, it’s never going to get elected. People are either dumb as bricks or corrupt, and so is the system. The whole system is hopeless, I don’t think we’ll ever see real change without seeing violence first.
Condoms are a hell of a lot cheaper than children
As much as I’m certain this is not the case I still can’t help but be self amused with the mental image of an exasperated Gavin Newsom coming out of an extensive review of data on just how much Californian highschool students do be going at it, and immediately declaring “nope, can’t afford to rubber all that.”
I like the cut of your jib.
“We want progressives!”
“You have progressives at home.”
The progressive at home:
Newsom is starting to come around to running things a bit more like his predecessor. Brown was liberal, but Brown was famous for saying no to spending in order to preserve rainy day funds. And CA voters have always loved a governor who was socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
Newsom is trying to tighten the belt again. A pandemic, more fires, more floods, and more drought has meant that CA has been, and will need to, spend a lot on some pretty major things.
What is socially liberal about preserving caste discrimination? How does keeping psilocybin illegal or capping the price of insulin deplete the rainy day fund?
How is standing in the way of contraception socially liberal?
Caste discrimination is already illegal.
What harm will explicitly codifying it do, then?
“What harm will it do” is a shit argument. Tell me what good it will do.
It will explicitly protect people from caste discrimination instead of the weak and easily misinterpreted protections they currently have.
But a Democrat in office did it, so it must be right in all cases and any flimsy justification must be instantly accepted without question.
He vetoed a bill that provides free condoms with cost as a reason. Hardly standing in the way, just not giving a helping hand.
Helping people is leftist, not liberal.
Helping people is leftist, not liberal.
Well, at least I won’t be under the mistaken impression that he’s progressive anymore.
Judging from a number of posts here, does that guy have “Veto Week” or what?
I think he receives the bills to sign/veto in batches.
Probably uses his ass like a stamp whenever he vetoes anything as well
He has an October 14th deadline.
https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2023/10/gavin-newsom-veto-bills/
I mean I do agree with the fact that the bill doesn’t provide funding for the condoms just that the schools need to provide it. That sounds pretty dumb to me.
I mean but is there explicit funding for providing toilet paper?
I do think schools are under funded but that’s a lousy reason imo
I don’t have a strong opinion either way, but it does kind of make sense that loading an unfunded mandate on already under-funded public schools isn’t the best way to come at this problem.
You mean? Or you say? What’s the difference?
It’s an American English thing. Sometimes to make a statement sound less intense, people start by saying “I mean.” It’s probably regional, but I’m not sure where people do and don’t say it.
It’s rather idiocy.
You came in here and misunderstood something and now you are calling everybody else idiots? Nobody else had a problem understanding what the comment meant except you.
As if you didn’t come here and didn’t misundertand something.
Or have you always been here, for eternity?
You seem to have a problem understanding English and that’s okay. It’s a stupid language sometimes. Just don’t take it out on everybody else.
Yes, I seem to have it. But I don’t have one
“mean” refers to “meaning”, as in the definition, or understanding.
It is similar in use to ie, (id est, or that is). An explanation.
“Say” makes no sense in this context. Say is stating something, but he isn’t stating, he is explaining.
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That’s normal English phrasing. So… everyone in the English speaking world is the “kind of idiot” you refer to.
It’s a very common English idiom to start a sentence that way. Are you ignorant?
I mean a lot of people do actually speak like this where I live. It’s a pretty regular way to start a sentence. No need to be rude…know what I mean?
To be fair…. If there were free condoms at my school, they would just be used for water balloons and pranks
People also misuse sidewalks. Should we remove them?
False equivalence
No you’re right. Proper childcare and sex education is much more serious and in need of proper funding
How many of those kids will end up in foster care? How many will put their parents onto welfare rolel? How many will we need to send to college?
It’s hard to tell kids that condoms are cheaper than kids when the government won’t do the same.
Because babies and STDs are free.
Wait until he hears how expensive welfare is for single teen moms.
I’m pretty sure he knows more about it than you.
Didn’t Colorado do this and teen pregnancy rates nosedived?
Edit: I couldn’t find any news of Colorado doing this. Apologize for the misinformation.
It was not condoms, here is the study you were most likely thinking about.
Thank you, kind lemming.
