An Israeli military spokesperson confirmed that there were “hostage situations” in the southern city of Ofakim and the nearby kibbutz of Beeri.
Hamas said it had taken “dozens” of Israeli soldiers hostage and moved them to the Gaza Strip as footage emerged appearing to show gunmen in military fatigues leading a group of mostly barefoot women down a street in Israel.
The announcement and video verified by NBC News came hours after Hamas launched a deadly land, air and sea attack and fired a huge barrage of rockets at Israel.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Palestinians could say the same thing
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
How does this help them gain their land? On the contrary it will harden public opinion against them. The only person that benefits from this is Netanyahu. I’m stunned by the stupidity of Hamas.
Hamas does not exist to regain land. Hamas is not trying to help anybody. Hamas is using the conflict to maintain its socio-political and military control over Palestine.
I mean, afaik both the Jews and Muslims have a legitimate claim to the land, as both their religions have a long history of that territory being “holy” to them. The problem is that (understandably) the Jews only want to be ruled by Jews, and the Muslims only want to be ruled by Muslims. So Israel and Palestine are incompatible with each other in terms of government, leading to the issue that it’ll be extremely hard to get them to shake hands and govern jointly (which, imo, would be the ideal).
That’s not excusing Israel for the violence against the Palestinians. It’s absolutely horrid. Nor is it excusing Palestine for violence against Israelis.
While understandable when looking at their recent history of Israeli aggression, doesn’t exactly make them look good.edit: this was written before Hamas just mowed down a field of concert goers. Fucking disgusting. If you have an issue, take it out on the cops or soldiers, not on the people who are just trying to have a good time.Barbarism, like all violence, is never justified. It may be inevitable, but brutalizing innocent People has never and will never accomplish anything of merit. While the origins may be understandable, they in no way justify the actions and in no way further the cause, but definitely impede progress.
The fuck is wrong with you?
People frequently feel emboldened to celebrate murder when the people being murdered are Jews.
So, not because of a long history of brutality towards the Palestinian people, but because they’re Jewish? GFTO with that nonsense.
The conflict has been raging for a long time. So have many other conflict. Nobody defends attacks on civilians anywhere else in the world; only when the victims are Jewish.
You know there’s a massive war going on in Ukraine where Russia is genociding Ukranian civilians and some of the tankies on this very site are cheering them on, right?
Like, there’s dozens of examples I can think of off the top of my head. Attacks on civilians get defended all the time, by various different groups of shitheads.
Nobody defends attacks on civilians anywhere else in the world; only when the victims are Jewish.
This is bullshit, I’m afraid. I haven’t seen single comment here supporting an attack on Israel civilians. Stop gaslighting.
There are like twelve people here. This person doesn’t seem too torn up, but you want support, you want celebration.
Obviously, people in Palestine are celebrating the attacks, but let’s forget about them.
Mia Kalifa is not only celebrating the attack, but retweeting a good dozen other people who are doing the same, each of whom seem to be getting plenty of attention: https://nitter.net/miakhalifa
I’m trying not to expose myself to much more, but if you really want me to subject myself to people reveling in the murder of my people, I’ll go look.
It’s impossible for Zionists to make a coherent argument without lying about easily verifiable facts.
Extrapolating being anti-Israel to being anti-Judaism is ignorant.
People oppose North Korea. Nobody revels in the slaughter of North Korean civilians. Nobody celebrates the killing of civilians anywhere except Israel. There’s a reason.
By the way, they’re constantly using anti-semitic tropes to do it.
North Korea wasnt artificially planted on land that wasn’t theirs less than a hundred years ago, terrible comparison.
Neither was Israel. Israel retook its homeland from British colonizers through a conflict with the British, the Jordanians, and another group of Arabs (the word “Palestinian” at the time referred to everybody who happened to live there, not particularly to the Arab subgroup it refers to today). It was not planted, it was liberated by its indigenous people.
Nah people celebrate when the people being murdered are Nazis.
that’s fascism
And what should the Jews there do until their land is theirs again? Or are only the Palestinians allowed a homeland?
Look at Israel’s borders when it was formed and look at them now, and then ask yourself why there’s such a difference
the charts you’ve been seeing are mostly fictitious. The most significant event those charts even attempt to depict is the 6-day war in 1967, when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia attacked Israel, Israel defended itself, and took control of Jordanian-controlled East Jerusalem and the Syrian-controlled Golan Heights in response—and that’s about it.
Or are only the Palestinians allowed a homeland?
Everyone should be allowed a homeland, but not everyone should be allowed an apartheid state where they’re allowed to oppress others.
It’s a good thing Israel is the only place in the Middle East where people have the same rights regardless of race or religion. There’s nothing in Israel resembling apartheid.
https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/01/24/dismantling-the-apartheid-lie/
The Israeli government oppresses the Palestinian people in response to the constant threat the region poses to Israeli civilians. I wish for peace and an end to oppression. But since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, terrorist activity spiked. Israel’s concessions constantly result in the deaths of innocent Israelis. This is the conflict.
But since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, terrorist activity spiked.
Correction: Terrorist activity, predictably spiked after the blockade in 2007. I mean, turning countries into open-air concentration camps has that effect.
The Israeli government oppresses the Palestinian people in response to the constant threat the region poses to Israeli civilians.
What? How does oppressing civilians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem help combat terror? How does settlement in the West Bank help combat terror?
Also check the official definition of Apartheid. Do you need me to tell you how Israel fits the definition?
There’s nothing necessary about the oppression of Palestinians in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. The terror attacks you’re talking about are the result of the oppression; don’t mix your cause and effect.
Correction: Terrorist activity, predictably spiked after the blockade in 2007. I mean, turning countries into open-air concentration camps has that effect.
Your tactic is superficial. A blockade does not make a concentration camp. You’re evoking imagery of something that is, in fact, wholly unrelated. you chose that term specifically in your intentional, racist attempt to paint Jews as Nazis. I hope to hell nobody falls for it.
What? How does oppressing civilians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem help combat terror?
Specifically, the blockade helps fight terror. The blockade prevents terrorists from getting materials to make weapons. And Hamas uses anything it can get its hands on into a weapon. That’s part of the reason they work so hard to control the flow of aid within Palestine—the other reasons being quite obvious.
Also check the official definition of Apartheid. Do you need me to tell you how Israel fits the definition?
Only insofar as every border everywhere fits the definition. South African Apartheid—the thing people are trying to reference in order to demonize Israel—was intra-state apartheid. It was not an instance of border enforcement. Border enforcement is incredibly common. The Israel-Palestine conflict has nothing to do with Apartheid South Africa, but again, you people know that people think Apartheid is bad, so those are your go-tos. Israel is Nazis, Israel is Apartheid. Neither claim holds up to any scrutiny. You’d be better off arguing that Israel was a communist nation, tbh.
There’s nothing necessary about the oppression of Palestinians in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. The terror attacks you’re talking about are the result of the oppression; don’t mix your cause and effect.
Muslims and Arabs in the region have been terrorizing Jews since at least the late 1800s. They were never willing to accept any form of peace or coexistence.
A blockade does not make a concentration camp.
That’s a metaphor, ever heard of it? Israel doesn’t allow dual-use materials. The thing is: A lot of life’s necessities are dual use. See:
According to the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories of the Israel Defense Forces, in May 2010, this included over 1.5 million litres of diesel fuel and gasoline, fruits and vegetables, wheat, sugar, meat, chicken and fish products, dairy products, animal feed, hygiene products, clothing and shoes.
Specifically, the blockade helps fight terror.
The blockade caused the terror. Like literally the rocket attacks started with the blockade; you can look at the timeline. Also I like how you now narrowed your definition to the blockade, because you can’t justify anything happening to Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Only insofar as every border everywhere fits the definition. South African Apartheid—the thing people are trying to reference in order to demonize Israel—was intra-state apartheid.
You need to learn more about East Jerusalem. I’ll start: East Jerusalem Palestinians are systematically and routinely evicted from their homes to make way for Jewish settlements. It’s much harder for Palestinians to gain construction permits than it is for Jews. Palestinian peaceful protests are repeatedly suppressed violently. It’s almost impossible for a Palestinian in East Jerusalem to get Israeli citizenship (not that many want it, but the ones who do can’t), meaning that they live under a regime they can’t politically participate in. Should I go on? For more information, look up “Palestinian boy shoot in face by Israeli police”. There’s more than one story.
Note how I didn’t even touch on the West Bank; that’s a whole different beast.
Muslims and Arabs in the region have been terrorizing Jews since at least the late 1800s. They were never willing to accept any form of peace or coexistence.
You mean anti-Jewish sentiment began to rise when the “let’s take Arabs’ lands for ourselves” movement began to gain steam? Say it ain’t so. Also give me an example of that terrorization.
The main oppressors of Gaza are Hamas. The main reason for their living conditions is because building materials are taken from the Palestinian citizens to be instead used for tunnels into Israel to kill more Jews. The reason for the blockade is because Iran sends Hamas weapons by sea otherwise. Hell, even with the blockade they still try to do so.
Of course all of these facts are comfortably ignored because “Israel bad”.
The terror came after, not before, the blockade. Just saying. And a blockade is already an act of war, so Hamas fighting is to be expected.
absolute nazi take.
I thoroughly encourage anyone on the fence about the situation to read the article you linked because it is a fantastic example of how weak Israel’s argument that they’re not an apartheid state is. It’s nothing but whataboutism and tokenism.
Just to clarify, you understand they’re all semites and they’re all from that particular region?
Like, it isn’t Israelite land any more than its Palestinian land and at a certain point, these claims of “it was ours first” just continue the cycle of violence, oppression and war crimes.
They are all both perpetrators and victims.
Yeah, but his belief that it’s his homeland is more valid than their belief it’s their homeland because a bunch of weirdo evangelical Christians who pull the strings of the largest military in the world think Jews need to be in Israel for the end times to commence.
The word “antisemitism” has a long, complex history you can read about on wikipedia. It was largely promoted by antisemites for some time. But now, it’s the standard term for racism against Jews, and we largely find debates about the use of the term tedious and pointless. We don’t mind calling it Jew-Hate, but people recognize the term antisemitism, and it works.
Religious homelands are not homelands.
Are ethnic homelands homelands?
What counts as a homeland, to you? Where are we allowed to engage in self-determination?
You know what, you’re right. My family fled Lithuania when the Soviets took over, so I’m on the next flight to Vilnius and I’m going to move into the first house I find owned by an ethnic Russian.
I would not recommend or condone that, personally, but I am happy that you are once again welcome in Lithuania. If you did find and reclaim your own family’s home through some procedure under Lithuanian law, that would be nice.
My family fled Iran during the revolution. We are not welcome there. We still own property there, in theory. Many Jews are unwelcome in many of the places they spent hundreds or thousands of years. We have frequently been expelled from our various homelands. You can see why we don’t want to be expelled from our own. I do hope you understand.
If you did find and reclaim your own family’s home through some procedure under Lithuanian law, that would be nice.
Oh trust me, some of the things Jews did for that land were not lawful. See Benny Morris’s 4-stage analysis of the Palestinian diaspora.
Yes, ethnic homelands are homelands because their ancestors have been living there. Being a member of the same religion does not entitle you or your people to land any more than shouting an incantation.
The Jewish people are an ethnic group, not only a religion. Our ancestors lived in Israel. No matter how hard the various colonizers tried to keep us over the millennia, we maintained some Jewish presence there the entire time. Now, we once again control a portion of our ethnic homeland and are not willing to give it up.
Is there something you’re still confused about?
Nope, your ancestors didnt live in Israel. People who were the same religious as you did. The jewish presence expanded rapidly in various waves, but was not as consistent as you’re making it out to be. It is not your ethnic homeland.
deleted by creator
Sadly, what all must do is talk to one another, respect one another, and work out a solution. Neither the Nyet and Yahoo brigade nor the clueless attack and hide while innocents are punished for your actions squad are working upon a solution. Likely they are the impediment which must go away first.
Likely they are the impediment which must go away first.
Hamas can’t disappear until Israel’s stance changes. Remember: Hamas came to power because Israel wasn’t willing to advance a peaceful solution.
And their actions make that harder to accomplish just as the actions taken by Israel can’t disappear until the Palestinians’ stance changes. It is a circle.
No no. Hamas’s philosophy, and what won them the 2006 elections (they had never won before that), was the idea that peace was clearly not working. For example, what got Israel to pull out of Gaza was not the Oslo peace process, but the second Intifada after the peace process had failed. That’s what I’m talking about. It’s not like Palestinians are fighting because they want to; it’s that Israel is creating a situation where there’s no way but to fight or accept your fate as the oppressed. Usually the oppressor needs to stop their oppression before the oppressed stop fighting back.
Now I’m not saying if Israel gave Palestinians their demands terror attacks would stop completely, but a population living in peace greatly reduces terrorist organizations’ recruitment pool. See: The IRA during the troubles vs now. There’s just no world where Hamas can maintain power without a belligerent Israel…
Your first paragraph is utterly irrelevant to the discussion as this isn’t about reasons for grievance. That said, you are mostly wrong about the cause and effect involved.
The IRA then VS now was also via Peace Process being a two way street and not one side doing something. You should study what happened to see that it was in fact both sides realizing the only way forward. Unlike you myopic “It is up to the greater power to stop fighting first!”, both sides had to. And while your supposition that Hamas relies upon the oppression for their continued existence, they would cause the process to fail by an attack, much as the current one. And the only result is those that are also reliant upon the conflict for power in Israel are using the attack to increase support for more oppression.
Are you sure? Maybe the Palestinian people should vote on that. Oh wait they can’t, Hamas won’t allow a vote. Instead they threaten “their own” citizens to make sure they’re more afraid of them than of Israel.
Of course, Hamas also can’t exist without Israel, otherwise who would they have to murder “from the Jordan River to the sea” as stated in their charter.
Of course, Hamas also can’t exist without Israel, otherwise who would they have to murder “from the Jordan River to the sea” as stated in their charter.
Yes, without the oppressor the oppressed wouldn’t have rallied behind a group who want to violently expel the oppressors. That’s part of the anti-zionist argument.
What should Israel’s stance be with regards to people who want them dead?
Not do things that put people who want them did into power. There’s a reason Palestinians flocked behind Hamas and that was because peaceful solutions were not working.
Give Gaza autonomy in exchange for disbanding Hamas and turning in their leaders. Have a third party both sides trust provide security guarantees to Palestine so they can trust the bargin will hold
Israeli army does this, Hamas does that
The people suffer.
Religion best begets violence as this just brings us closer to WW3
I hope the Palestinian people and the Israeli people can know peace in this lifetime
After so much time, I think there’s no religion left in this conflict, only pure hatred.
The Israeli Right sees the inevitable future; Israel will lose its Jewish majority in the next generation or two. Bibi said “Arabs breed like dogs”.
This is it. They may not get another opportunity to keep the Arabs down. They feel they need to crush and occupy Palestine because the alternative, in their eyes, is Arabs taking control of Israel and the Palestinians winning.
Indeed. Maybe the West Bank Palestinians can avoid getting dragged in this time.
None of these organized people are worth a penny, both governments, all the terrorist groups, they’re all scum, and the people suffer on both sides endlessly because of them.
Slowly genociding an entire people and their culture for their land eventually pushes them to commit unspeakable acts of violence to try and save themselves? Interesting.
You’d think after the atrocities of the 1930/40s they suffered they’d learn to have some empathy for others, but nope
deleted by creator
I think that if they had no empathy they would have exterminated them a long time ago. They have the capability
How is this saving themselves?
Do they somehow think that brutal violence at civilians will deter Israelis after brutal violence at civilians didn’t deter themselves?
No, all they’ve done here is fuck over both Israeli and Palestinian civilians. Senseless violence and revenge where nobody wins.
Gaza population growth is 3% a year. If the Israelis are committing genocide they’re not doing a very good job.
Words matter. The Israelis treat the Palestinians atrociously but it’s not genocide.
If anything the attacks will always have a response so that a rational actor would think better the next time. That strategy at best keeps the status quo and at worst could end in their own extermination.
See the apologists are on top of the threads again. You sound like Putin. The crimes of the Palestinians are inexcusable.
How is what zionists have been doing any better?
They’re not. Everyone sucks here.
deleted by creator
That implies Israeli crimes are excusable.
No, it doesn’t, but the fact you think it does says a lot about YOU.
Rational, informed people condemn both sides here.
You sound like a spastic. I wonder how many Palestinian civilians the Israeli government has killed. They really do deserve each other.
Self defense is inexcusable? Or only inexcusable when certain people deign to exercise such rights?
This will only bring more conflict upon the people Hamas pretends to “protect”
Worse than the abuse and degradation that they already experience? Worse than losing their land to thieves backed by the western world? Worse than being targeted by Zionist security agents?
Yes, since now all those things will be escalated in revenge for these indiscriminate attacks. It goes both ways, it’s not one side that needs to relent; to achieve peace, both sides need to relent, but acts like this make that notion more and more implausible, and in the end it’ll only lead to further escalation and further suffering, and given that Israel has more resources than Palestine or Gaza, that suffering will be felt more by the people Hamas “protects”.
Self-defense against this little teenage monster, huh? https://www.instagram.com/p/CyG1HdsA5I9/
There’s no such thing as self-defense against a civilian who never hurt anybody.
These are not incidental victims while the terrorists target the IDF. These are the targets. They are targeting innocent little girls.
Yes, murdering and kidnapping civilians is inexcusable, why would that be excusable?
The Israelis murder and kidnap Palestinian children on an almost daily basis. They kill Palestinians regularly. Are they not civilians being unfairly brutalized or is it only unfair when the western world says so? Or only when the victims are female, another bizarre western norm.
Removed by mod
Pretty well documented at this point what the Israelis have and continue to do to the Palestinians but I see you.
If your lies were documented at all, you’d cite a source. Luckily, people can look these things up on Google.
Here’s an article from 234 days into the year, from Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/22/more-than-200-palestinians-nearly-30-israelis-killed-so-far-this-year-un. That number is not limited to children, it’s mostly active enemy combatants.
The Israelis murder and kidnap Palestinian children on an almost daily basis.
Lol, you assholes just love the fact that nobody’s going to look this up on Google.
Not even close. Total Palestinian deaths this year are around 2-300, by Hamas estimates, and are mostly adults engaged in terrorism, although Hamas refuses to distinguish. That number likely also includes Palestinian victims of friendly fire. Kidnappings are negligible—unless you count arresting a terrorist as kidnnapping. Palestinian children have died, but it’s nowhere near daily or even weekly.
Removed by mod
I don’t think we can blame the Brits here.
After what happened in WW2, it was a noble Idea to give the Jews their own Country. Nobody could forsee that the Victims of fascism would start to behave like this themselves.
Removed by mod
The Palestinian Mandate was, at the time, Britain’s “own land.” The indigenous people of Judea rebelled against the British and declared their independence. Give Wales to the Welsh and Ireland to the Irish, the Jews have no connection to or interest in Wales, it’s patently ridiculous to think we would want to live there.
So you believe you have a claim to the land of Palestine Because your imaginary God told you so. Humans can Justify whatever darkest shit they come with because their imaginary told them they are entitled to it. go give your story to other brain dead cultists. atheists can’t take that shit
I believe my people have a claim to the land of Israel because our ancestors live there—we didn’t live there because God says though, we lived there because we actually lived there, and there is no shortage of evidence in this matter, there is no room for doubt—and because my people have a right to self-determination in their homeland, as all other people everywhere do, and because my people have been ostracized and oppressed and killed in every other place we’ve attempted to make our homes in, and because our safety is not conditioned on your approval.
“our safety is not conditioned on your approval”
For sure You have the world’s biggest powers fighting your corner to oppress and genocide week people. the people who own that land are the people you found living there. going back thousands of years to legitimize stealing other people’s land doesn’t register with people who still have some brain cells. only the religiously brainwashed or heavily propagandized can justify the existence of a theocratic state called Israel
There have been Jews living there through those thousands of years, but if you’re referring to the immigration of the late 1800s and early 1900s, most of the land was unsettled, there weren’t many people living there at all. As we began to settle the British colony, Turks, Syrians, Jordanians, and other Arabs started to move there. They absolutely do not have more claim to the land than we do.
This would not justify genocide, which is why we are not engaged in genocide.
Israel is the only place we feel safe. We are still not interested in your opinions on our safety.
By they way Lemmy.World mods can eat shit too for deleting comments criticizing Israel. because “please engage in good-faith and respect”
And of course nobody is seeing the wider range of things. This was obviously caused by Russia and Iran in order to divert western attention from the Ukrainian-Russian war. Start actually giving tools to Ukraine to end Russia and you probably will be ending/preventing conflicts in a lot of places.
Western attention was already diverted, particularly in the US with Republicans actively blocking support for Ukraine. If anything, the opportunity for this attack was bolstered by Republican MAGA efforts to unseat McCarthy, as the US is further hampered by a dysfunctional House which now cannot approve aid to Israel (or Ukraine) until they select a new speaker.
Totally agree with you, (some) Republicans are helping Russia a lot. Should be investigated where their funding is coming from
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
