Joe Biden called on world leaders to stand by Ukraine in its struggle to eject Russian troops, even as Kyiv’s allies said they now expect the war to last for years to come.
All these things you claim aren’t happening actually are, you just won’t read about it in the Washington Post.
Many Ukrainians did try to leave, they held referendums of secession which were laughed at by the west. Then they were besieged by what is ostensibly their own government. One of the goals of the Ukrainian government is to eradicate all common history with Russia, and that includes people of Russian heritage. No wonder they want to or have left. Donbas was constantly shelled for eight years before Russia finally came in to say enough is enough. Crimea’s fresh water supply has been held hostage by the Ukrainian government. Even many of those in more privileged positions have left, as Ukraine is the worst economically performing country in the world since the fall of the USSR.
Russia has taken in the largest number of refugees from Ukraine. Many Ukrainians from Crimea and Donbas have been fighting for the liberation of their communities against the fascist and ethno-nationalist Kiev regime. People in the western regions of Ukraine have been fed ethno-nationalist propaganda for so long that the country is horribly divided. Opposition political parties and media are prohibited. Without this bath of propaganda and such huge support from western capitalists this war would have never even begun, but the US must vassalize or destroy all possible threats to its hegemony.
Many Ukranian citizens have turned on the military, in that they’ve left. Now the west has begun to send fighting age men back, as the US and NATO will fight this war against Russia to the last Ukrainian. Many are simply surrendering to Russian forces, as even if they wanted to fight they don’t have the equipment, training, strategy, or manpower.
Even once the war ends what’s left of Ukraine will belong to US private investment funds and the more fanatical ethno-nationalist Ukrainians will start terrorizing Europe as revenge for not having killed every last Russian or whatever it is that Azov and Co preach now.
Looks like Ukrainians voted 92.3% in favor of independence from Russia.
What are you referring to when you say ‘Then they were besieged by what is ostensibly their own government.’?
as Ukraine is the worst economically performing country in the world since the fall of the USSR
Starting to think you’re talking bullshit, here. Have you seen Haiti?
I dunno man, looks like you’re kind of just crafting a narrative without any legitimate reason to support it.
The fact you’re swinging in the complete opposite direction of Ukrainian propaganda kind of just makes you look like you’re falling for and perpetuating Russian propaganda.
The information is out there if you care to look for it. You can also stick your head in the sand and blindly call reality “Russian propaganda.” Reality doesn’t care. I could say the same to you in terms of crafting a narrative. What’s the legitimate reason to support the fascist Kiev regime? Blackrock has a legitimate interest, maybe some oil and agriculture oligarchs.
Anyway, if you’re interested this may be an interesting place to start reading some historical context.
By besieged I mean just that. Donbas was shelled for eight years by the Kiev regime’s armed forces. There has been a civil war in Ukraine for almost a decade, one that borders on genocide against people of Russian heritage. Western media at least admitted this was happening until early 2022, now it’s considered a Russian conspiracy theory. Thousands of children and civilians have been killed by western supported Ukrainian armed forces in Donbas, and we’re just supposed to not care and call it fake news? What about the internationally mediated and agreed upon Minsk ceasefire treaties which Kiev just ignored?
In terms of referendums I was talking about the Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk ones. Here’s a report some years on about Crimean’s feelings on the situation.
In terms of economic performance, Ukraine’s GDP has contracted since 1991, Haiti’s has grown. It’s an imperfect measurement of course, but at least a fair playing field. Same goes for population. You can cut out 2022 given the war if you like, but the trends don’t change significantly.
Yeah, ‘just find it yourself’ is a real shitty response when pressed for sources.
You can ‘find’ anything on the internet if you look hard enough. That doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
It’s better to be on the same page about where we’re getting our information from. In this case, it looks like you shared some very biased sources. Now everyone know you’re getting your information from fringe news that has an agenda to push and isn’t influenced by journalistic integrity.
Hideo Kojima was right. There’s so much misinformation and half-truths on the internet, that anyone can believe what they want and they will have no shortage of ‘sources’ agreeing with them.
I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, just that you may be influenced by the same propaganda tactics you’re accusing others of.
In terms of economic performance, Ukraine’s GDP has contracted since 1991, Haiti’s has grown.
This little tidbit right here makes it seem like you’re arguing in bad faith, though. The economies of Ukraine and Haiti are nowhere near comparable. It looks like you’re just trying to twist your brain in knots to avoid saying anything good about Ukraine, which leads me to believe you have been heavily influenced by propaganda.
So you want unbiased sources like the NYT that knowingly printed lies from the US government to justify war in Iraq? How about the newspapers who knowingly lied about Tonkin? The ones that knowing lied about Cuba?
Do you know how far back this goes? Did you know the Opium Wars launched against China by the British were sparked by newspapers printing lies about China? Do you know who owned those newspapers? The British opium dealers. One of those was the family of Forbes. They took their opium money and invested in US railroads, then they took that money and made a global financial empire and a newspaper.
There are no unbiased sources. Everything you think is unbiased is actually North Atlantic propaganda.
It looks like we have to start at a much more basic level. I’d suggest starting with the books Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti and Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.
The fact that you reject the sources I provided outright without considering them on their merits and the primary sources they cite says all I need to know about having a conversation in good faith.
Coincidentally supporters of the fascist Kiev regime also twist their brains into knots. If you pressed me I’m not sure I could say anything good about the modern Ukrainian state. It’s a neoliberal nightmare, making life significantly worse for its citizens and residents, it’s killing civilians in cold blood, it’s threatening terrorist actions against supposed allies, it’s using Nazi symbology and fascist political strategy, and it’s taking actions that could result in nuclear war. It’s doing all this so that a few billionaires can collect a few more millions or billions. How is this defensible?
All these things you claim aren’t happening actually are, you just won’t read about it in the Washington Post.
Many Ukrainians did try to leave, they held referendums of secession which were laughed at by the west. Then they were besieged by what is ostensibly their own government. One of the goals of the Ukrainian government is to eradicate all common history with Russia, and that includes people of Russian heritage. No wonder they want to or have left. Donbas was constantly shelled for eight years before Russia finally came in to say enough is enough. Crimea’s fresh water supply has been held hostage by the Ukrainian government. Even many of those in more privileged positions have left, as Ukraine is the worst economically performing country in the world since the fall of the USSR.
Russia has taken in the largest number of refugees from Ukraine. Many Ukrainians from Crimea and Donbas have been fighting for the liberation of their communities against the fascist and ethno-nationalist Kiev regime. People in the western regions of Ukraine have been fed ethno-nationalist propaganda for so long that the country is horribly divided. Opposition political parties and media are prohibited. Without this bath of propaganda and such huge support from western capitalists this war would have never even begun, but the US must vassalize or destroy all possible threats to its hegemony.
Many Ukranian citizens have turned on the military, in that they’ve left. Now the west has begun to send fighting age men back, as the US and NATO will fight this war against Russia to the last Ukrainian. Many are simply surrendering to Russian forces, as even if they wanted to fight they don’t have the equipment, training, strategy, or manpower.
Even once the war ends what’s left of Ukraine will belong to US private investment funds and the more fanatical ethno-nationalist Ukrainians will start terrorizing Europe as revenge for not having killed every last Russian or whatever it is that Azov and Co preach now.
Do you mean this referendum of secession: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
Looks like Ukrainians voted 92.3% in favor of independence from Russia.
What are you referring to when you say ‘Then they were besieged by what is ostensibly their own government.’?
Starting to think you’re talking bullshit, here. Have you seen Haiti?
I dunno man, looks like you’re kind of just crafting a narrative without any legitimate reason to support it.
The fact you’re swinging in the complete opposite direction of Ukrainian propaganda kind of just makes you look like you’re falling for and perpetuating Russian propaganda.
The information is out there if you care to look for it. You can also stick your head in the sand and blindly call reality “Russian propaganda.” Reality doesn’t care. I could say the same to you in terms of crafting a narrative. What’s the legitimate reason to support the fascist Kiev regime? Blackrock has a legitimate interest, maybe some oil and agriculture oligarchs.
Anyway, if you’re interested this may be an interesting place to start reading some historical context.
https://www.liberationnews.org/should-we-really-blame-nato-for-the-ukraine-war/
By besieged I mean just that. Donbas was shelled for eight years by the Kiev regime’s armed forces. There has been a civil war in Ukraine for almost a decade, one that borders on genocide against people of Russian heritage. Western media at least admitted this was happening until early 2022, now it’s considered a Russian conspiracy theory. Thousands of children and civilians have been killed by western supported Ukrainian armed forces in Donbas, and we’re just supposed to not care and call it fake news? What about the internationally mediated and agreed upon Minsk ceasefire treaties which Kiev just ignored?
In terms of referendums I was talking about the Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk ones. Here’s a report some years on about Crimean’s feelings on the situation.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/
In terms of economic performance, Ukraine’s GDP has contracted since 1991, Haiti’s has grown. It’s an imperfect measurement of course, but at least a fair playing field. Same goes for population. You can cut out 2022 given the war if you like, but the trends don’t change significantly.
Yeah, ‘just find it yourself’ is a real shitty response when pressed for sources.
You can ‘find’ anything on the internet if you look hard enough. That doesn’t mean it’s accurate.
It’s better to be on the same page about where we’re getting our information from. In this case, it looks like you shared some very biased sources. Now everyone know you’re getting your information from fringe news that has an agenda to push and isn’t influenced by journalistic integrity.
Hideo Kojima was right. There’s so much misinformation and half-truths on the internet, that anyone can believe what they want and they will have no shortage of ‘sources’ agreeing with them.
I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, just that you may be influenced by the same propaganda tactics you’re accusing others of.
This little tidbit right here makes it seem like you’re arguing in bad faith, though. The economies of Ukraine and Haiti are nowhere near comparable. It looks like you’re just trying to twist your brain in knots to avoid saying anything good about Ukraine, which leads me to believe you have been heavily influenced by propaganda.
So you want unbiased sources like the NYT that knowingly printed lies from the US government to justify war in Iraq? How about the newspapers who knowingly lied about Tonkin? The ones that knowing lied about Cuba?
Do you know how far back this goes? Did you know the Opium Wars launched against China by the British were sparked by newspapers printing lies about China? Do you know who owned those newspapers? The British opium dealers. One of those was the family of Forbes. They took their opium money and invested in US railroads, then they took that money and made a global financial empire and a newspaper.
There are no unbiased sources. Everything you think is unbiased is actually North Atlantic propaganda.
It looks like we have to start at a much more basic level. I’d suggest starting with the books Inventing Reality by Michael Parenti and Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.
The fact that you reject the sources I provided outright without considering them on their merits and the primary sources they cite says all I need to know about having a conversation in good faith.
Coincidentally supporters of the fascist Kiev regime also twist their brains into knots. If you pressed me I’m not sure I could say anything good about the modern Ukrainian state. It’s a neoliberal nightmare, making life significantly worse for its citizens and residents, it’s killing civilians in cold blood, it’s threatening terrorist actions against supposed allies, it’s using Nazi symbology and fascist political strategy, and it’s taking actions that could result in nuclear war. It’s doing all this so that a few billionaires can collect a few more millions or billions. How is this defensible?