San Francisco’s police union says a city bakery chain has a “bigoted” policy of not serving uniformed cops.
The San Francisco Police Officers Assn. wrote in a social media post last week that Reem’s California “will not serve anyone armed and in uniform” and that includes “members of the U.S. Military.” The union is demanding that the chain “own” its policy.
Reem’s says, however, its policy isn’t against serving armed police officers. It’s against allowing guns inside its businesses.
Bring on the down votes but my opinion is this will only make things worse. I think people should judge the police on a officer to officer basis. I work in biblical service and the majority of cops are really decent people who are trying to help. There are always bad seeds. Even if a cop is on a power trip if you ask them they will help you.
In my opinion the biggest problem w the police isn’t the officers it’s the training and culture. They have their hands tied w ridiculous use of force policies and almost no training. But bring on the hate and call me a fascist.
It’s hard for me to judge them individually cop to cop because literally EVERY.SINGLE.ENCOUNTER I have EVER had with a cop has been a negative experience at best. Every single one. I’m not going to hate on you or call you fascist. Just pointing out it’s like saying I’ve never met THIS wasp before, maybe I shouldn’t judge it unless it stings me! Then surprise motherfucker you got stung, whodathunkit.
Fucking bullshit, sorry but not sorry, but you’re delusional man. And I’m a 40yo professional white guy in the suburbs! My god, I can’t even imagine being black from the hood.
Watch some Police Audit videos. About one out of 10, a cop does something spectacularly good (or at least not horrible). Once, they even arrested another cop on the scene because the other cop crossed from “merely bullying” to outright criminal behavior.
The other 9 out of 10 are disgusting and disappointing. So your view of them sure isn’t far off reality.
Too little too late.
From one white suburban 40 year old to another I understand what you’re saying and as I said before I have met plenty of wasps. I guess what I am trying to get across is that blanket hate for cops isn’t the answer. It’s a very hard job that they are not trained to do and it does attract assholes. But every encounter I have with a cop I start out just being friendly and the majority of the time they are friendly back. Also well aware of my white 6’2” privilege when dealing with them.
Sounds like survivorship bias.
Hard to really have a conversation about it when this is how it goes every time.
White suburban 40 year old that works public service in mixed cities with large populations of poor black white and Latino communities so I don’t live in a bubble. Most cops I work alongside seem to treat decent people decently. Again there have been some bad apples but it’s a work in progress.
I think you’ve misunderstood what I meant. You are a white, suburban 40 year old. Your demographic does not get targeted with police brutality, so it’s no surprise that cops treat you well. It’s a form of bias called survivorship bias.
No I understood what you said and I agree with you. I am aware that I get treated differently. However I have noticed that a lot of the younger cops that I see interact with minority populations much better than older “salty” cops and they gives me hope. There are real assholes too, my hope is things get better. Because I see the cops treat scumbag white people the same way they treat scumbag black people.
Finish that phrase. Here, I’ll start it for you “A few bad apples ruin…”. Any time someone uses the phrase “a few bad apples” and then can’t point to where those bad apples have been purged with extreme prejudice, they’re just illustrating how broken things are and why police need to be abolished and replaced in-mass with a new police force that’s designed for actually helping people with proper checks in place to permanently and aggressively deal with those that abuse their positions.
The tradeoff for police getting special powers should be that when they use those powers to violate peoples rights, the weight of the law should come down on them like a ton of bricks. If a cop commits a crime, they should have a MINIMUM of 10 times the sentence a non-cop would get. Cop assaults someone and that’s normally 6 months in jail? Cop should get 5 years in jail. Cop murders someone and normally you’d get 5 years? Cop gets 50 years. If there were extremely harsh punishments cops would be a hell of a lot less likely to abuse their positions. You also need to fix the incestuous relationship between police and prosecutors. There should be an independent department purely dedicated to arresting and prosecuting police for crimes.
I like the idea of a new police force but what you are describing sounds like inanity. You had me until you make the punishments 10x the crime. What happens when someone make a honest mistake? Because they had a off day their lives are ruined. Even in this fantasy where the constitution no longer exists who would sign up for that job? You will have to pay $500k a year and have genius lawyer monks doing the job.
If I have an off day at work, someone gets the wrong email. If a cop has an off day at work, someone’s dad gets killed. Do you not believe LEOs should be held to a higher standard of accountability? Anyone given the power to kill on behalf of the state should be held to a higher standard than the general population.
Even if I did believe that was a good thing it’s against the constitution to have 2 separate punishments. That said I think cops who fuck up should be tried in court like any other citizen. If you want change go apply to a department.
That’s the risk you take on when you’re given powers nobody else in our society has. Police can literally kill people on purpose, something that nobody else is allowed to do. Police can imprison or detain people, once again something nobody else is allowed to do. Police can take your property, once again, something nobody else can do. They can invade your privacy, and even though there are some checks on that power they’re extremely limited. Every time an officer decides to exercise their powers to violate someones rights, whether they’re justified in doing it or not, should be a weighty decision that comes with heavy consequences if they choose wrong. If a cop is worried about being punished he could always take the safe approach of you know, just not violating someones rights. You’d see a hell of a lot fewer instances of cops immediately going for their gun as their first last and final solution to literally all problems if getting that wrong actually had dire consequences for them instead of just some annoying paperwork and having to sit through interviews.
You need to talk to some other people about their experiences with cops. I look like you, but i’m autistic, so I can’t act like you. Police constantly think i’m lying/hiding something/acting guilty because they’re taught to interpret the way I interact because of a developmental disorder as criminal behavior. Then, if they push us into a meltdown by intimidating the hell out of us, because they assume we’re criminals, we get beaten and arrested or shot.
You seriously need to think more about how your position in life and outward appearance actually affects the way the world interacts with you. Things aren’t just harder for some people. They’re completely different, and these institutions are supposed to exist for all of us. f you understood what it was like to interact with the police as an autistic man or a black man, you would not be defending the police.
That sucks man and I hate that that happens to you. I am not beating my chest for every cop but not all are animals and until people stop being awful to each other they are needed. I try to de escalate every scene I am on when I feel the cops are being assholes. Their job is almost impossible and unfortunately it attracts douche bags but also there are some great cops.
Unless and until they start following section 1983 of the federal code, as was written and passed by Congress not as was illegally revised in 1874 by one person that had no authority to do so, they are all criminals and deserve nothing but scorn.
This only applies to the thugs with badges in the US. It may not apply to your utopian police department.
So you won’t call them if someone steals your car or assaults you?
Hell no, that’s only going to make things worse. First police won’t do anything if something is stolen, so that’s just wasting your time. As for assaulting you, there’s a good chance that’s going to end up with the cop beating you up instead. You’re better off asking for help from some random passer by, there’s a better chance they’ll actually help. If my house is on fire I’ll call the fire department. If I’m having a medical emergency I’ll call an ambulance. If crime of some kind is happening you deal with it yourself because the cops will either do nothing or make it worse.
Yes seriously, only thing cops are good for is the paper trail for insurance. Call them while you’re being assaulted and they’ll probably just join in the fray.
You know every time I’ve had something stolen and filed a police report I have not even once had my stolen shit returned. They don’t even call back after weeks to say “hey we didn’t care enough to follow any leads, good luck”.
And yet they take every fucking chance they can to write my as many moving violations as possible, whether or not they apply.
The police don’t serve the people, never have.
That’s on the system not the individual officer.
Fuck the officer for going along with it. They can quit and find a different job that doesn’t make them out to be a piece of shit like the rest of us. Nobody forces them to become a cop, but by choosing to become one, they’ve branded themselves as part of that fucked up system. That’s on them. ACAB
Cool let’s not have cops
Considering studies show dollar-for-dollar we can effectively do what good police do by putting their budget money in other services (mental health, welfare, etc), I’m ok with having a LOT fewer cops with a lot more limited mandate.
So this way not only will petty crimes not get solved but the bigger crimes will also go unsolved.
Honestly, I’m not super married to the idea of “solving” crimes. I would rather prevent 1 crime than solve 2. The idea that solving crimes is more important than preventing them only works for the punitive model of justice, one that I do not ascribe to.
If we could cut the crime rate 90%, but the people who committed crimes went free, I’d still strongly consider it.
That’s despite the fact I don’t agree that big crimes wouldn’t get solved. Of over 650,000 police officers, only 10,000 are detectives, who are trained and tasked with solving crimes. That’s a LOT of cops that solve crimes for a living at all. They “keep peace”. Sometimes you DO need a cop to keep peace, when the most important thing is the presence of mitigating force. The rest of the time, a social worker is more effective.
What do you do for work, and how much time do you spend in depressed areas? I have seen babies shaken to death mothers cutting their wrists while their children are in the next room, people placing gasoline bombs in banks around town, a guy set his ex wife’s house on fire with her in it, a guy shot in the stomach for the cash in his register, a pregnant woman stabbed in the belly 9 times by a stalker abd Countless other awful things and for these reasons I am glad cops are working. Obviously there are douche bags. But the real world is really hard and at times evil. So without police and the idea of punishment I think it would be chaotic. There has to be a better way to deliver public safety and I am on board with it but for now it’s better than nothing.
Now you’re getting it
Your inability to see your selection bias and account for it (while claiming to do just that) is beyond staggering.
Like… you’re saying the words, but then your overall takeaway proves that despite what you’re saying, you have no concept of reality beyond your own lived experience and world view.
I’m not in the ACAB/Defund camp either by any means, but you should either learn to truly acknowledge your bias (and not just pay it lip service), or just fucking own it and stop pretending to have a nuanced and enlightened opinion.
Like…don’t try to make yourself sound like you’re speaking from any sort of well reasoned position that accounts for the limitations of personal experience and acknowledges the experience of others. Just say, “Hey, the vast majority of cops I’ve interacted with, I’ve had no problem with. Therefore I think most cops everywhere are decent people and the tiny fraction that aren’t are just an unfortunate and unavoidable, but ultimately acceptable exception that is worth it in exchange for the services police forces as a whole provide for society.”
Because that’s literally what you’re saying.
You’re a white guy working and interacting with these cops in a religiously charged setting that already puts you in familiar and friendly territory with them in terms of ideology, race, and gender. These are three huge factors that are all coloring the interaction, and given the closely intertwined threads of American right wing politics with police, religion, race, and gender, every single interaction you’ve had with them benefits from being on their side in all the major categories that matter. With that frame of reference, you cannot possibly (at least while maintaining intellectual honesty) use your own personal experience as being at all broadly representative of that of the average person in the general public.
It’s like showing up to game day in the home team’s city wearing the home team’s colors and singing the home team’s fight song…and then the next day when you see a story about how many of those fans you met were harassing and assaulting fans of the other team, your response is, “Well I interacted with dozens of those fans and they were all really nice to me. Since I have real experience with them, that proves that they’re nice people who would never do those bad things. Must have just been 1% of bad apples. But overall, there’s no problem with bad fans since they were all nice to me.”
I was with you until about here. I’ve seen cops shoo away people in need rather than even deign to give directions. I would say the majority I’ve seen have been very unhelpful and the encounters that have been nice or cordial have been the extreme minority. It’s like their default is power trip mode.
Correct.
Yea I was too broad there when I said that However in my own experience I have seen even SOME -asshole cops be helpful.
Yea I was too broad there when I said that However in my own experience I have seen even SOME -asshole cops be helpful.
I think that part of the problem with your response, not just biblical vs public service, is that it is a bias based on your own experience.
Like the rest of us, the police are overworked, and it is reasonable to expect that they feel pressure to act and do, not to take time to reason and consider. For an office worker, they might get angry and have a short fuse. For an officer, that might have dire consequences.
What purpose do the police serve? In my youth, they helped get baby kittens down from trees. The officer with the glowing smile would hand the kitten to the little girl who needed help. The highly legible and large typeface said “Cop gave cat.” Factual and warming.
This isn’t the interaction I usually have and it isn’t the interaction I’ve heard others have. Was Timmy and Suzy’s Big Day wrong? Consider the difference between The Andy Griffith Show and Dragnet. It’s a big difference when you know the people you are there to “Protect and Serve,” but reality is considerably different for most.
On the other side of things, you have folks that have been underprivileged from the crib. Social pressures indirectly, if not sometimes directly, perpetuate their plight. It instills anger and a general distrust.
Now mix those groups together.
Grouped by association is going to be the outcome unless people recognize their biases and actively try to work outside that. It means recognizing how your experience might not be shared amongst others. That’s all anyone is asking.
Yea man I typoed biblical it was supposed to be just public service I don’t believe in god or the Bible.
I’ve heard some incredibly tone deaf comments in my time but damn man…i am a white male who has had the fortunate privilege to be white when i was pulled over and still, every encounter, conversation or interaction with a police officer has always been highschool level ‘bully looking to finger you for the smallest infraction’ so they can hair trigger justify beating you up verbally or physically.
the dark truth about what you do, is you provide them with the right to keep on doing it…a born again christian. get high on saturday, go to church on sunday, wash away your sins and absolved of any wrong doing. that’s what they are getting out of your biblical services, justification for continued violence. and you clearly don’t mind because they treat YOU well. just like a psycho will treat some people nice like pets to get others to fight on their behalf
Damn you sure are painting with a broad brush. I have been replying to a lot of comments so if you read this reply in another comment sorry. I agree that the police need reform and I agree that it attracts a lot of the wrong type of people. I think their training is lacking in use of force and de escalation tactics. I think they should have more than 2 hrs a year of grappling training and a lot of departments are moving in the right direction.
I am sorry you have only had dealings with asshole cops because I know a lot of really good ones. Have a great day.
Everyone knows a “good” cop. And every one of those good cops has covered up for a bad cop. Which, by default, means there are no “good” cops.
And then the corollary; Every so often, there’s a good cop that has stood up to their bad cop neighbors, calling them out publicly for evidence tampering and racial profiling. And then the union kicks them out - making them a good person, but no longer a good cop.
They do their own filtering. Hence ACAB.
You are not wrong entirely. if it weren’t such a systemic issue, sure. more and proper training will always yield higher caliber candidates. but instead of that we could deploy as a society another tier before people slam 911 and get a nuclear response from armed angry jacked up 20 year olds with a slight god complex…a Mental response team for dementia or distressed people that are not geared up to fight in a foreign war and maybe come with a response kit for people breaking down or confused or just angry and need to scream before cooling down… Cops solve everything with comply or die, guns are their spoon fork and knife.
I agree with you there too the cops need another layer especially for behavioral or psychological calls. But that’s a training and budget issue. Also I have been to so many crisis intervention calls as a paramedic and was thankful the cops were there because they patted down the pt and they had either a gun or a knife on them. Every municipality is complaining about their budget so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for trained social workers thst want to respond to the shelter or nursing home at 4 am for the psych.
the budget issue is intentional id hazard a good guess. but yes, another sad truth is that stuff costs money and wandering through political red tape to get funding for an entirly new division? im def not holding my breath, and i dont like it. :(
How many of the “good cops” turn in the bad cops? Oh none you say… Well you might want to do a recount of good cops then.
Y’all remember when NYPD in its entirety said that old man fell during those protests a few years back?
Then videos got released.
Judging cops on a department by department basis saves paper ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
the ones that do, get blackballed or run out…if they are lucky :(
So you’re saying the system is broken? Well, that sounds like something we can agree on then. The police force is broken, needs to be torn down back to its foundations and rebuilt. Every time something happens with police you always get the same response “It’s just a few bad apples”, conveniently leaving out the rest of that phrase “that ruin the bunch”. Well, those bad apples have been left too long, and it ruined all of them. There are only two kinds of cops, the bad apples, and the ruined apples, both need to be thrown out. We need to abolish the current police and replace them with a uncorrupted version, the rot has set in too far in the existing police force, there’s no salvaging it.
When did I say none?
Oh. Ok. Anyway, moving on.
It’s a typo I meant to write public service but I have been responding so much I can’t even find the comment to edit it.
Well, that’s easily one of the most unfortunate typos you could have made here lmao
Lol no shit RIP my comment karma too, feels like Reddit.
That’s sorta the point that people generally have issues with cops dude. It’s the overall culture of shielding of each other from consequences, stoking a “everyone is your enemy”/warrior mentality among officers, bad or lack of training leading to unneeded violent escalation etc.
It’s been police departments dragging their heels and throwing tantrums on addressing these issues that have what caused people’s dislike of them to grow.
I’ll throw my support behind cops who are standing up to the bullshit.
But they are usually fired (or worse), which means the people I’m supporting… aren’t cops anymore
Yea I have been saying that the entire time and getting downvoted to hell. My opinion is one of the big problems are cops don’t think of themselves as part of the community so by kicking them out of restaurants will only make them feel like less of a part of the community. I am done responding to these comments everyone seems to be a expert lawyer and city planner that has extensive experience dealing w the public.
I would say they don’t feel part of the community because they are the enforcement behind alienation under capitalism. If everyone has housing, security, fair trials, etc then people wouldn’t perceive them as part of an alienating force.
A good officer will have no problem respecting a bakery’s no-firearms policy.
It’s fine to have a different opinion and you shouldn’t be downvoted. If you’ve had that experience of them it’s perfectly valid. There’s just a lot of cops who are secret white supremacists who get outed routinely and that’s genuinely scary. Cops should get a lot more education than they do in the US.
I 100% agree I have met and delt with so many really shitty cops in my own time. Then factor in the 1% that are real monsters and I understand the way people feel. I train Jiu Jitsu with some amazing cops that are really trying to be better for their community and themselves. I am just defensive after reading all the comments.
https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/
Again preaching to the choir over worked and riddled w PTSD obviously the result is domestic violence and other unsafe behaviors. I mean the 1% monsters like this fellow. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44402948
It’s only 1% when you ignore the domestic violence.
1% monsters like Jenkins 40% that beat their families can and should fuck themselves. I am referring to the corruption and actively destroying the communities they work in not just home life.
“It’s only 1% because I’m very specifically framing my world view in a way that I feel justified in cropping domestic abusers out of the picture of bad actors.”
I am not saying 99% are upstanding the 40% that abuse their families are monster. I am saying the 1% that are corrupt at work and using their power for personal gains.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt because if you don’t they will punish you isn’t really giving them the benefit of the doubt, it is a backhanded acknowledgement that if they are not collectively appeased and given unwarranted grace, they will behave badly.
That’s not an argument that they’re not bullies, it sounds like an acknowledgement that they’re bullies and it would be better to appease them
The biggest problem is the culture and a lack of accountability is part of the culture.
You know why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Empire_State_Building_shooting
After the amadou diallo shooting the NYPD knee jerk response was to increase the trigger pull pressure of their pistols so it would be harder to pull the trigger. So instead of better training and use of force tactics they just made it harder to shoot. And that in turn makes it easier to miss and hit bystanders. A perfect example of the terrible policy to breeds bad cops.
Ridiculous use of force policies serve the purpose of reducing departmental liability without spending money.