Are they trying to say that NFTs are some kind of bullshit scam that should have dissolved into the ether like the crypto bro’s cocaine-fueled manic state that spawned them in the first place? How shocking and unpredictable.
What do you mean? You didnt go out and spend all your money on reproducable jpegs? Whats wrong with you?
reproducable jpegs? Excuse me?
I live walking distance from my local police department. If another person uses my NFT without my consent I will report them immediately. This is MY PROPERTY. The transaction has be verified scientifically on the block chain. Anyone who violates my NFT rights will pay the price.
Buddy, you have no idea who you are messing with. I have made a ridiculous amount of money in crypto/NFTs and I have the best lawyers. If you don’t delete those stolen jpegs, you’re going to regret it. When you steal someone’s property you get punished. Watch out.
Sorry to disappoint ya, but the thing that gets stored on the blockchain isn’t the image itself but usually just a link to the image, sometimes with a hash of the image.
You’re not storing the image itself on the blockchain, meaning if the link goes down your NFT is useless.
Additionally, you cannot report someone for using your NFT unless you get a registered copyright for it, and the use of your NFT must not fall under fair use. Considering that there’s so many different variants of the same NFT in most cases, it’d be barely possible to register a copyright as you’d immediately strike all the other variants AND there is a chance the distributor already has copyright on the work.
(ofc, I’m not a lawyer, check local legislation.)
I do love how genuine you are when replying to this shitpost
Bless his kind soul. He doesn’t deserve the downvotes.
I will take any and all chances to shit on NFTs, no matter how many reply with “whoosh”
You can’t file for copyright registration for something you didn’t create unless the creator explicitly signed over copyright ownership rights to you (and most NFTs do not)
Stares in Poe’s Law.
I mortgaged my house for a computer-generated ape that my son’s cousin’s uncle’s neighbor’s mailman said would one day finance my retirement.
It will, it will. Any day now, you’ll see! My kid told me the same thing, and his favorite streamer wouldn’t just say anything for money, would he?
I spent all my money on a chance to get a certain jpg.
So the guy on Reddit who told me I better get with the NFT game or be left behind in a year was full of shit?
The whole “web3” bs has always just been a shabby scam, and people fell for it
Did they though? It might be my filter bubble, but whenever I saw web3 being pushed I saw a small refraction of responses of people who also thought it was a great idea (typical salesbros - so a good idea for others to do, just not for themselves). But the vast majority of people reject it for being a scam.
So how many people fell for it, really?
Did the average person/average internet user fall for it? No.
Did the people who fell for it get sucked into what was basically a cult that sucked the money out of a decent amount of people? Yeah.
The numbers for some of these scam projects were honestly insane.
Ah, probably my filter bubble then.
I’d like to read more about this, do you know of any specific cases?
If you have time, I would suggest CoffeeZilla on YouTube. He basically just get into crypto scam, which isn’t hard to find these days. One specific case I would look at is the influencers taking on pretty much any scam projects to get money. The series is with Oompaville. A great watch.
I don’t think it’s even possible to calculate how much real money was lost to this stuff.
Huh…so does web3 actually mean anything then?
Yeah, I have only a little sympathy for the people who got pulled into the get rich quick scheme, particularly younger people who hit some money only to get caught in what was basically a gambling addiction.
I have way more sympathy for their friends and family who either tried to financially support them when they hit rock bottom, or those who got scammed or stolen from just to pump more money into this bubble.
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Even the name “web3” is stupid. Isn’t it supposed to be the next step after “web 2.0?” Shouldn’t it then be “web 3.0?” They couldn’t even include a space between web and 3!
There actually is a Web 3.0, and it predates the cryptocurrency-oriented conceptualisation of “Web3” by quite some time.
Web 3.0 is otherwise known as the Semantic Web, a set of standards developed by the W3C for formally representing (meta)data and relationships between entities on the internet, and for facilitating the machine-reading and exchange thereof.
I thought the whole point of NFTs and the blockchain is that it’s decentralized, and you can use “smart contracts” for things like this. How is one company able to decide to change it?
Apparently, smart contracts are not contracts at all… they are friendly suggestions. Unsurprisingly a contract needs a mechanism to enforce it, which makes decentralized contracts redundant at best (as you still need institutions outside of the blockchain to monitor and enforce the contracts), and or worse, completely useless if there is no legal way to enforce them.
The idea behind smart contracts is that they contain code to verify that the contract is fulfilled (that’s the “smart” part of the name).
This of course also means that you can only use it for stuff that happens on the same blockchain, because the contract can’t verify anything outside of that.
Which is why this isn’t relevant for the real world, it’s just eating its own tail.
Yeah I was tempted to add a caveat, it does technically auto executive, but because it needs to interact with the real world it will always run into the oracle problem. The only solution to the oracle problem is courts and tort law, which makes the blockchain contract redundant and unnecessarily expensive.
They can only change it for their instance, but they can’t impact all NFT marketplaces. This is only significant because this company is the largest broker so it will impact more people.
Anyone can set up their own blockchain and build it however they want. Hell, they could make it centralized even.
That’s not the question
The post you replied to was saying, “shouldn’t it be inherent to the entry on the Blockchain, regardless of market”
You’d think it should be, but their contracts never enforced it in code
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I am ok with this
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It’s broken now? I’d say that’s a bold assumption that it ever worked in the first place.
Edit: to be clear, I mean that it is and always has been an impossible problem. The only reason it ever worked is because some broker company wanted it as a feature, not because anything compelled them to give original artists a cut. And that’s before you consider the question, “but how do you know the NFT was made by the original artist?”
How is this Web3 scam still a thing? I thought I would finally stop hearing it after the crash but it just keeps coming back. The only people who will get rich from this are the scammers themselves.
It’s a mindset. Once you know that the solution is Blockchain, all you need to do is to find a question that fits this answer to get filthily rich.
Casinos are also a known scam, but that hasn’t stopped them.
This is now a recurring feature of tech vaporware. Claiming something that is clearly shit is okay because it does some good, or something that is uselesslt frivolous and speculative will have and important function and use-case in the future.
My condolences to those that have been made fools by this - we all need to keep an eye out for these patterns going forward.
I wanna add: prosecute and sue these thieves. Sue the people who took money to promote these lies. They all deserve to have those ill-gotten funds ripped away.
“Web3” was supposed to enrich a bunch of assholes. It was never meant to do anything else.
Hard disagree, “web3” (defi) is meant to provide a decentralized alternative to our modern economic infrastructure, that doesn’t have huge institutional points of failure like central banks or investment banks. The only reason people piled into these speculative projects, centralized exchanges etc. is because probably > 60% of the population is into the idea of getting-rich-quick while < 1% of the population is into trying to build a better future with tech, or even just getting their head around how the technology work in the first place & what kind of potential it actually has.
I’ve been watching blockchain since Bitcoin was under a dollar and it really blows my mind how much people love to spout off about it without understanding anything about the space. You’ve got teams of hundreds, thousands of people working for years to solve all the problems in the space like PoS or scalability or contract security, but the general public is all just talking trash about the entire space because of NFTs.
Even this article, “Web3 was supposed to make sure the original artist always got paid”? Who said that? “A key feature of NFTs has completely broken?” No one who knew anything about NFTs ever said there was some universal “guarantee an artist would get paid”, particularly not if a contract to purchase an NFT didn’t guarantee that directly. If a given contract guaranteed that (or at least, the party creating the NFT on-chain), then it still does. If it didn’t, then it didn’t. Anyone actually learned Solidity and read a smart contract for themselves? Cause I’ll tell you, any smart contract where some institution has “god controls” over the state of the contract, that’s against the entire point of “web3”/“defi”.
I think the Trump NFTs were my first time hearing of perpetual trade royalties. Most of the NFTs I own are tied to games though… maybe it’s more common in the art space and chains I don’t frequent.
I was into BTC before anyone really had a good place even check the value and would waste them on side projects and also gamble them away randomly like they were Chuck E Cheese tickets. It does not keep me up at night, in fact everyone constantly checking the price of crypto is almost the antithesis to Crypto in my opinion. The investing mindset is kind of nauseating, you can’t talk about any project without price being brought up.
Very well put. I’m so sick of people dog-piling on NFT/Blockchain because their only exposure to it is shitty Bored Ape images and manipulated crypto currencies. There’s so much potential there but lazy media reporting and people’s unwillingness to actually learn something about it has done some serious damage to web3 viability.
Yeah NFTs themselves don’t guarantee royalties, but most publicly advertised NFTs are based on unique or limited run graphics that include such contract terms. When artists started getting sketched out by the idea, one of the biggest arguments in favor of them was that artists could receive royalties on every sale, something that became a major selling point for marketplaces aimed at laymen who didn’t really know anything about crypto.
It’s not surprising, then, that this feature being taken away seems to negate one of biggest supposed benefits that NFTs provided. This was supposed to be the thing that balanced concerns about art theft and the value of quantity over quality that haunt NFTs to this day.
The general opinion of crypto isn’t going to improve until people feel it’s stable and safe enough to actually trust their money with, and moves like this certainly aren’t helping that image of volatility.
I don’t know much about NFTs, but can’t the “give original artist a cut of royalties” clause be coded into the smart contracts? Why does it depend on a particular platform?
It doesn’t depend on the platform, but the venn diagram of artists trying to get paid and people who know how to write a smart contract doesn’t overlap much. Marketplaces were built to ease the former into the space by taking care of all that for them. The artists, for their part, just had to trust that the contracts actually did what they said they did and watch for the money to hit their accounts as proof.
People who were depending on the platform to sort that out are now stuck with either finding another platform or figuring out how to write the contracts themselves on top of their other business duties. Even if they do so, they’re likely going to lose a good portion of their following and brand precense in the move.
A. I don’t actually feel bad for anyone because if you’re involved in NFTs in any way, you’re begging to be scammed. There is no legitimate use for NFTs.
B. This seems like blatant illegal fraud. You can’t just advertise “get this cut of all transactions forever” to get people to join, then say “just kidding” once they include their “art” in your shitty scam. They’re entitled to their shitty cut of your shitty transaction, and you can’t hand wave it away by pointing to fine print when you sold the product very clearly making that claim.
There are uses for NFT, but it is clearly not what they are famous for.
NFT aren’t pictures of monke, they are a way to authenticate something in a decentralised way, so no trust in another entity needed. The picture isn’t the NFT, and that is why you can just right click-copy it.
You can’t however just copy the NFT, the actual token. Having a token that’s verifiably owned by someone is useful for certain things. It’s like a certificate of authenticity, but digital.
Digital certificates has already existed for half a century. There’s nothing new. A certificate doesn’t get any more legitimate just because it’s recorded on a blockchain.
Yes but NFTs are held in trust by you, not a 3rd party business. If you want to sell your NFT to a friend you can do that without brokering the exchange through a middleman who can/will charge a cut
Don’t blockchain brokers charge a transaction fee?
Yes.
How you transact the ownership of NFTs is a different story. I’m reacting to the claim that NFT is “like a certificate of authenticity, but digital”, which is not unique to NFTs at all.
This claim is also often misunderstood, since the NFT can only verify the authenticity of the certificate itself, not the art/asset it’s pointing to.
I can easily create an NFT of Mona Lisa. The blockchain will see no problem with it at all. Heck, I can create 1000 NFTs of Mona Lisa if I want.
Rookie numbers, I can create billions
This is still solved by certificates, I can make my own self signed certificate that says it me and sign whatever I want. The only thing that crypto “solves” is over the wire man in the middle attacks, which aren’t even really a problem in the modern internet
How do I know you haven’t made 10 copies of that same certificate and sold 9 to other people?
If it was an NFT I could see you issued 9 other copies of it before I was approached with the sale. Any other way I either have to place blind trust in you or rely on a 3rd party to handle the issuance/transaction
I could just use 10 different URLs for each NFT. All pointing to the same image. I can also use 10 different wallets to obfuscate it more. For that matter, I can use different blockchains as well.
Now it’s 10 completely different NFTs pointing to the same image. To verify there are no duplicates, you need to check every NFT in existence (across all blockchains in existence).
Why are people so obsessed with bringing scarcity back on the internet
Why would I want that, I’m not selling you anything
This sounds completely logical, until you realize it’s for selling JPGs and expecting them to only exist in that one buyer’s hands.
There’s basically 3 ways to verify a certificate.
- TOFU - trust on first use - save the certificate print first access and remember it so you know if it gets changed
- WoT - web of trust - other certificate holders verify the certificate and hopefully you find a chain to someone you trust.
- Central authority - the most popular. A central entity verifies and goes good for the identity.
In all three you need to trust someone, and ask three are a pain to transfer something to new owner.
NFT gives a fundamentally new option here, that’s transferable and doesn’t require trust. That it’s been used for and gotten known for monkey scams is a shame.
And how do you verify that the NFT can be trusted? With any of the 3 methods you mentioned!
Blockchain doesn’t circumvent this need of trust.
The thing blockchain eliminates is the need of a timestamp authority when doing transactions. Satoshi even called his invention “distributed timestamp server” before people started to call it blockchain. You don’t need timestamps when verifying the authenticity of an NFT.
Not really, signatures on blockchains is just another TOFU or WoT variant, because how do you know the original token is the legit thing you wanted in the first place? It’s only after you have identified it that the existence of the blockchain becomes relevant in that it can track ownership without central authority.
Are there any practical (non-theoretical) uses for NFTs that couldn’t be done
otherwiseeasier/better without them though?Edited to make it easier for NFTs to show their worth.
insert word jumble about unrealistic scenarios made up in my basement while stoned
https://www.hongkiat.com/blog/nft-use-cases/
It is just a tool, it’s what you do with it that gives its worth. Monkey pictures… Well that’s not worth anything
These are the same promises the emergence of the blockchain gave us. We’re now nearly a decade later, and the most useful application has been get-rich-quick schemes. Yet, all these listed applications are still not in use, and/or better than their non-blockchain counterparts.
Hell, if you know why electronic voting is not, and will never be a good idea, you definitely wouldn’t want them as an NFT.
How you can really know electronic voting is a bad idea - all the people who would be the ones to be hired and paid a ton to build and implement it, cryptographers and infosec experts, are the same people who loudly oppose it.
There are so many different problems;
Assuming you manage to build the perfect system, can you actually explain it to people? If you put a prospective voter in front of the real deal, a secure electronic voting machine, and put a fake replica next to it, will ANYBODY EVER succeed in telling them apart? Or will you be forced to continuously audit the hardware from production to shipment to use, and somehow still respect voters’ privacy as they use the machine?
And how can you be confident your implementation is secure? You can to prove the algorithms are correct, that the implementation is correct, that the implementation behaves as end users (voters) expect, and that even the hardware is flawless (both in terms of logic and protection against manipulation).
How do you ensure people only vote once, yet also protect their privacy, but ALSO prove to them their vote was really counted? Individual keypairs? How do you distribute and protect them? Physical ID cards? What if they get stolen (in significant enough numbers)? What if a significant fraction of the population won’t use the new system, do you still run old school voting and combine the results?
How do you give somebody a receipt they can understand without enabling coercion to try to force people to vote a certain way?
Yeah, that about sums it up.
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Basically anything that is currently traded on any digital or quasi-digital exchange but relies ultimately on a paper/manual backend.
Can you give a real life example of that being applied?
Monkey pictures!
There is a lot of talk, for example, in the sustainability space where things like emissions allowances, carbon offsets, etc. are traded the old fashioned way where a digital ledger using NFTs would be both instantaneous and transparent/easily auditable.
But the most obvious example is security exchanges, e.g. stocks, bonds, etc. (which would be a massive threat to the existing financial institutions) because it could allow for instantaneous settlement and fully transparent markets.
HUGE HOWEVER, not all NFT systems would be equally useful for that kind of thing. What we saw with FTX, for example, was a blockchain exchange for tokenized securities where the blockchain aspects served no real useful purpose - it was a centralized, controlled, opaque use case. The distributed ledger model (which I think casual observers of blockchain assume all blockchain systems are) can correct for those failures. I personally think part of what made the FTX story so big was a combination of moves by major financial market players to get out in front of tokenization of securities by created the existing system again but with a blockchain coat of paint on top that then failed under its own scam at lightning speed which then gave the ammo to a whole “blockchain a scam, NFT an even bigger scam” narrative. They are just software utilities that can be used effectively or not just like any others.
Whenever I see someone identify a jpeg as an NFT, or put SBF’s face on a news story about it, I think about how successful the astroturfing of these narratives has been.
So… Just theoretical applications so far?
There are tons of people (actual serious people, not like SBF) working in this space and building these things now, so they are definitely more than theoretical, but they are not at the mass adoption stage.
And no offense, but this response has echoes of people saying federation would never work. But it’s just a different utility to accomplish similar goals to centralized forums. And when the old-fashioned, centralized alternatives really start to self-destruct because of their inherent flaws, the merits of the decentralized version become more obvious.
I’m actually pretty shocked that Lemmy/the Fediverse beats the same tired old drums about NFTs (ape jpegs being the most obvious), since they are red herring arguments. A tokenized jpeg has no value because a jpeg has no value. A tokenized security has the value of the underlying security. The token is just there to eliminate the need for accountants since the open ledger shows its work and the entire chain of custody.
But the same could be said for almost anything, for instance a car’s engine is non-theoretical but could be otherwise done with a horse instead. I will still prefer the more advanced technology, but of course you do you
You’re right. I’ve edited my question to make it easier for NFTs to qualify. After all, cars do the same as horses, but a whole lot better.
So what is a practical application of NFTs that, now that it’s implemented, makes someone’s life so much better?
So…“No”
No, automobiles and mass transit were a massive innovation that drastically changed everyone’s way of life. Look at the current state of global logistics. You can essentially order any fruit from home and have it fresh at your doorstep at any time of year. You can’t do that without engines.
This still works because cars ruined Western society in the guise of “advancement”, so that’s cool
NFTs have never once not been very blatant fraud.
NFT aren’t monkey pictures.
I know what they are. They’re a “solution” to a problem that doesn’t exist and very probably never will exist.
They have never once been used for anything even neutral. Every single case has been outright malicious.
It’s called a database.
An inefficient one
I reckon the meeting about the tokens went something like “okay, how can we monetise this?”, “Okay hear me out here… monkeys!.. digital monkeys!”
To me that whole royalties spiel was always just marketing to bait non-technical people into adopting the NFT system.
I’ve never seen anyone build and use an enforcable mechanism for a multi transaction chain to pay out to one original address repeatedly. I think at the very least you would always have to hold the NFT in a multi sig wallet between the artist and the current owner, for the artist to have a mechanism to keep enforcing their royalty claims. That would also require involvement of the artist in every further transaction.
Maybe I’m missing something like a smart contract that can fabricate new multi sig transactions on demand with pre-approval of the artist somehow… If anyone knows of something like that I’d be interested in the technical details.
It could theoretically be done by implementing a covenant system in contracts, but it never got built despite all the talk about it (probably because of the extra complexity it requires in validating new transactions). Otherwise, like you said, multisig is needed so one side can simply demand the new transaction to be signed use the same contract before agreeing on transferring. Which requires this second signer to anyways be available online…
It sure sounds like that wasn’t a feature of NFTs, but a feature of OpenSea
Who could have seen this coming? Who could have foreseen that all of Web3 was a ponzi scheme that would say anything to get people to pretend hashes on a blockchain is worth 100s of 1000s of dollars. Who? WHO?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
One of the big promises of NFTs was that the artist who originally made them could get a cut every time their piece was resold.
Starting March 2024, those fees will essentially be tips — an optional percentage of a sale price that sellers can choose to give the original artist.
The marketplace will continue enforcing the fees on certain existing collections until March 2024, at which point they’ll become optional on all sales.
Critics say it will hurt small artists and undermines creators’ ability to control their relationship with the people who buy their work.
OpenSea CEO Devin Finzer criticized the fees’ “ineffective, unilateral enforcement” and said that creators will find other ways to monetize their work.
“Our role in this ecosystem is to empower innovation beyond a single use case or business model,” he writes in the blog post announcing that OpenSea will no longer support the ecosystem’s primary business model.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
pfffffffffffffffff
I want to be sympathetic, but honestly, I’m just not.
Web3 was a mistake from the beginning.
Except people has been stealing art to do NFTs without paying the artists from day 1?
Yeah, I don’t know why people think this is somehow a new problem.
Yeah, wtf do they mean “anymore”? Did they not see a single artist having their stuff copied and put into some blockchain by grifters?
Right click. Save as.
Also note that the ERC721 standard says nothing about royalties. Royaltiew weren’t designed as a “key feature”
It’s not the art that you buy, it’s the “original URL” that belongs to you. You buy a treasure map leading to a princess. It’s your princess, that’s what is says on the napkin, but everyone can fuck her.
