• CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works
    8316·
    11 months ago

    Lenin himself wasn’t the problem and the Statures for him are usually for being a Revolutionary and removing the Tzar.

    Stalin was the actual problem.

    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
      74·
      11 months ago

      Let’s be honest. Lenin is the problem. Karl Marx was a philosopher who spoke with a lot of figurative language. Which Lenin treated as all literal dogma. And I am here to tell you taking figurative work literally is one of the worst decisions you can make. Just like evangelicals who take the bible literally. When it isn’t even a coherent work of fiction. Let alone a solid system of rule and law.

      Absolute power corrupts absolutely. As can be clearly seen in every major country that has tried Lenin’s blind ideology. (Cuba had some special circumstances that kept it from spiraling as fast as the others. Plus Venezuela is still a bit early to call. But likely will get there) Or pretty much every major capitalist nation as well. With Lenin as the lynchpin consistently making bad decisions. (Stalin) I think it’s probably safe to say he had good intentions. But was far out of his depth and it showed.

      And I’m not some liberal, or fascist critiquing from the right. Just a pro social democracy slightly libertarian leaning socialist.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      2634·
      11 months ago

      Lenin was a counterrevolutionary that brutally suppressed any dissent and directly placed Stalin (being well aware of what a person he was) in a position that would make his later takeover possible.

  • Filthmontane@lemmy.world
    8424·
    11 months ago

    You’re showing statues of Lenin in countries in which the Dictatorship of the Proletariat failed to cede power to the working class and establish a socialist economic structure.

    When Lenin took power, Russia had nothing. It was in the middle of WW1, there were regular famines, almost everyone was illiterate, and it was in no condition to establish a socialist economic plan. So, Lenin created a temporary economic model called The Dictatorship of the Proletariat. This is a centrally planned economy designed to rapidly develop infrastructure and industry in a country that has none. Lenin was already ceding power to the worker’s councils when he died. Stalin decided he liked The Dictatorship of the Proletariat and did not cede power back to the worker’s councils.

    Those countries never experienced Communism. They never even experienced socialism. They destroyed those statues because they hated The Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Living in a system designed for a short temporary economic boom for decades is no fun.

    • Gxost@lemmy.world
      1411·
      11 months ago

      So-called “dictatorship of proletariat” was simply a terror. Lots of philosophers and religious elite was killed just because they weren’t compatible with communist ideology. Rich peasants who didn’t even use others labor were either robbed or killed. Peasants lost their land and had to work for the country. People got killed just because some anonyms told they did something bad. I know this because it happened to my ancestors. My grand-grandfather lost his house, communists left only one room for his family. His friends, all good people, dissapeared. His daughters never played with neighbor’s kids because of fear. My other grand-grandfather lost land and two horses. His brother was killed for not agreeing to give away his house. And my another grand-grandfather was killed because an anonymous letter. He was communist and thought he was safe as he did nothing wrong. His kids couldn’t get education because they were “children of the enemy of the people”. Much later my grandfather got a paper concluding that execution of his father was a mistake. It was horrible time, and lots of people thought the ones who were killed were “pests” or “enemies of the people”, so killing them was good and beneficial for the society.

    • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
      2945·
      11 months ago

      countries in which the Dictatorship of the Proletariat failed to cede power to the working class and establish a socialist economic structure

      Oh, so like every single other place that tried to implement that deranged system? Thank you for this very important distinction.

  • CthulhuOnIce@sh.itjust.works
    12·
    11 months ago

    People in the comments with a completely fictionalized idea of Lenin as some kind of libertarian hippie who hated Stalin’s “authoritarianism” vs people in the comments with a completely fictionalized idea of Lenin as a “counterrevolutionary” (lol) or despot

  • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
    3624·
    11 months ago

    Technically, none of these countries experienced “communism”. They experienced tankie-led hell holes. Never trust a tankie. They’ll ally with you to fight for “the people” and then stab you in the back when they get a taste of power and don’t need you anymore.

  • zbych@szmer.info
    111·
    11 months ago

    This statue in Poland was few weeks long artist performance made few years ago near place, where Lenin’s statue standed in Nowa Huta until 1989.

  • KrupskayaPraxis
    56·
    11 months ago

    Forgot to mention it’s the people in power who hate those statues, not the everyday people

    • Akasazh@feddit.nl
      328·
      11 months ago

      Technically correct. They were under Stalins Marxism-Leninism, which was supposed to be a placeholder until true communism could be implemented.

      But it’s a bit disingenuous to split that hair in this thread. The irony being that the latter are all countries that got to experience the kind of gouvernemental structure that Lenin facilitated.

    • BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca
      175·
      11 months ago

      You can argue if they had sunshine scenario communism all day, but they certainly was under the oppressive thumb of USSR.

      • SpiderShoeCult@sopuli.xyz
        2110·
        11 months ago

        Do not feed the troll. Strange fellas, lying on the internet, arbitrarily defining communism to suit their rose-colored ideology is no basis for a system of debate.

        True debate stems from a knowledge of history, past events and conditions that led to them, not some farcical comment (as the one you are replying to).

        If I went around in communist times claiming I knew what Marxism-Leninism was just because I read a manifesto, they’d send the secret police after me.

      • 🦄🦄🦄@feddit.de
        178·
        11 months ago

        I didn’t say anything about communism being good or bad there, just that none of those countries ever lived under communism.

        • Catweazle@social.vivaldi.net
          52·
          11 months ago

          @Duke_Nukem_1990 @BeigeAgenda, correct, the key is the sovereignty of the people, not that of a single person or a small elite, this would reduce the communist system to a mere fascist dictatorship just as rotten as capitalism called democracy and where banks and multinationals dictate the rules, thereby it is not a democracy.

      • Dr. Jenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tubeEnglish
        142·
        11 months ago

        Capitalism is impossible to sustain in the real world. It’s literally killing the planet which will result in the extinction of the human race.

      • 🦄🦄🦄@feddit.de
        167·
        11 months ago

        There would be no one “in charge”. Communism and anarchy go hand in hand.

        human greed

        This is the lie that we have been fed all of our lives under capitalism. It’s so ingrained in us that some of us can’t even imagine a world of helping each other thrive instead of exploiting each other.

        • MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world
          31·
          11 months ago

          I’ve recently begun to dive into my own indoctrination, and it is quite wild how effective it has been.

          I think if anything, capitalism goes against our nature. But also, tbf, it’s worth pointing out, and I only have an anecdote for you, that people do seem to behave differently in large groups compared to smaller, where the larger group tends to lend itself to our worse nature, but even that can be atributed to external forces in some regards.

          i’ve just began to dig into theory… Peeling layers of capitalist suffering complex off in the process.

          Tbh I don’t know. Communism feels like our natural state, and getting back there is going to be extremely hard with the hole we’ve dug for ourselves.

          In my recent dive into the literature, I’ve found that I’m a pretty extreme leftist… But growing up in a capitalist society ive learned to shun people, avoid at all costs, and I’ve become basically a hermit, denouncing all forms of govt as futile, especially given our current circumstances as a species.

          Sorry for the rant. I’m still eating my shell.