I’m not saying it can be changed to whatever at any time, but rather that it is capable of adapting to a certain degree and often has to in order to continue. Certain core beliefs are going to stay largely the same, else a given religion stops being the religion that it is and becomes some other religion.
Religion does have things to offer that secularism doesn’t; at least insofar as we’re talking about modern nihilistic secularism under capitalism (secularism under a socialist state may take on a different character, I don’t have the benefit of living under one to know very clearly on that). It’s been a while so he could be sus in views, I don’t know, but years back in my lib days, I remember watching a talk by Alain de Botton where he goes over the ceremonial and community aspects of religion and basically argues that these serve a purpose that purely secular life lacks. I’m not expecting you to go find that and watch it, but it stands out to me as a point of contention on the issue and I think it’s a valid one. And based on my personal experience with religion people and with certain kinds of people (people who are more drawn to tradition, ceremony, etc.), I’m inclined to believe that whether it’s technically religion or no, some people are going to find ways to do things in a manner similar to the solemnity and reverence of religion.
We have to contend with the fact that there are billions of people who believe in a religion. According to a quick search, it would appear if the polling is to be trusted, the majority in fact believe in a religion. So I’m looking at this not just from the standpoint of what I’d personally prefer, but also what the current reality of it is. Although not everybody goes super dedicated into their religion, religious belief can be an extremely fervent and staunch thing, with some people willing to martyr themselves over their faith. It’s far from arbitrary. It’s just that it’s not more powerful than material conditions and the barrel of a gun. That doesn’t mean religious people are going to happily and easily give up religion and replace it with nothing.
ceremonial and community aspects of religion and basically argues that these serve a purpose that purely secular life lacks
I disagree. You even say:
I’m inclined to believe that whether it’s technically religion or no, some people are going to find ways to do things in a manner similar to the solemnity and reverence of religion.
Yeah, which reinforces the idea that it’s not necessary. You see regular ass people worshiping sports players, but at least they’re actually real and not telling people to commit genocide and owning slaves.
That doesn’t mean religious people are going to happily and easily give up religion and replace it with nothing.
That goes without saying? For some reason people seem to think this is the position of atheists who see the horrors of religions and it’s just like…not?
No one is ever going to convince me that this stuff is good for humanity as a former indoctrinated christian of almost 20 years, and it seems like there’s a weird gentle handling and defense of this horrific shit, I’ll never understand it.
I honestly don’t know how to respond to this. I tried to start writing some stuff, but it feels like we’re talking about two completely different things.
I’m not saying it can be changed to whatever at any time, but rather that it is capable of adapting to a certain degree and often has to in order to continue. Certain core beliefs are going to stay largely the same, else a given religion stops being the religion that it is and becomes some other religion.
Religion does have things to offer that secularism doesn’t; at least insofar as we’re talking about modern nihilistic secularism under capitalism (secularism under a socialist state may take on a different character, I don’t have the benefit of living under one to know very clearly on that). It’s been a while so he could be sus in views, I don’t know, but years back in my lib days, I remember watching a talk by Alain de Botton where he goes over the ceremonial and community aspects of religion and basically argues that these serve a purpose that purely secular life lacks. I’m not expecting you to go find that and watch it, but it stands out to me as a point of contention on the issue and I think it’s a valid one. And based on my personal experience with religion people and with certain kinds of people (people who are more drawn to tradition, ceremony, etc.), I’m inclined to believe that whether it’s technically religion or no, some people are going to find ways to do things in a manner similar to the solemnity and reverence of religion.
We have to contend with the fact that there are billions of people who believe in a religion. According to a quick search, it would appear if the polling is to be trusted, the majority in fact believe in a religion. So I’m looking at this not just from the standpoint of what I’d personally prefer, but also what the current reality of it is. Although not everybody goes super dedicated into their religion, religious belief can be an extremely fervent and staunch thing, with some people willing to martyr themselves over their faith. It’s far from arbitrary. It’s just that it’s not more powerful than material conditions and the barrel of a gun. That doesn’t mean religious people are going to happily and easily give up religion and replace it with nothing.
I disagree. You even say:
Yeah, which reinforces the idea that it’s not necessary. You see regular ass people worshiping sports players, but at least they’re actually real and not telling people to commit genocide and owning slaves.
That goes without saying? For some reason people seem to think this is the position of atheists who see the horrors of religions and it’s just like…not?
No one is ever going to convince me that this stuff is good for humanity as a former indoctrinated christian of almost 20 years, and it seems like there’s a weird gentle handling and defense of this horrific shit, I’ll never understand it.
I honestly don’t know how to respond to this. I tried to start writing some stuff, but it feels like we’re talking about two completely different things.