Ah, deprogram sub? They claim to be ML for some reason, yet there are ultra shit on main getting 1800 upvotes, dunking on ultras is getting banned for suspicious reasons like “do not post links to reactionary subs” when there is no link just screen, and there are bunch of absolutely nolife gonzaloists out there who are spamming every thread about it with their bullshit.
EDIT: holy shit there are like at least 5 threads about Gonzalo on main and everywhere the same few people are spamming nonsense and calling people white supremacist and Fujimori supporters. Btw one of those gonzaloists also post a lot of centrist shit about Ukraine.
The Gonzalite shit is very disappointing. It’s so frustrating because it’s an interesting sub and good on many things but the mods are too light-handed and may be ideologically problematic (certainly their rule on left unity {even though it’s mostly some variety of Marxists or Marxist-leaning opportunists there}).
Once again proving having rules against sectarianism is bad actually and not a good sign for a sub supposedly for a podcast, supposedly run by ML’s for the purpose of deprogramming liberals.
The sub is definitely on the minds (and under the skin) of a lot of liberals too as I’ve seen it posted to both TMOR, AHS, and I think SRD not to mention constantly being posted on by “anti-tankie” subs.
Whole thing brings back bad memories of the ultra coup on MoreTankieChapo.
Their takes on Ukraine are also imperfect, main line there seems to be “both sides bad” which is you know ignorant. Oh plenty of people with good takes on it, proper takes and they don’t get banned but lots of people very angry and upvoted pushing the both sides bad thing and the perfect off-ramp for these liberals who refuse to totally give up the propaganda of the imperialist capitalist reigning champion heavyweight hegemon (US/NATO) is to go ultra. Perfect moral superiority, smugness, sitting in arm-chairs shitting on others and feeling above it all.
Yes, i feel it’s currently on the verge of sliding into yet another ultra tube, and i have serious doubts about moderators of that sub, as mentioned i seen them remove ML content already few times under false pretext, but allow all kind of maoist content, and even something like uncommented Mao vs sparrow meme.
“Unity is a great thing and a great slogan. But what the workers’ cause needs is the unity of Marxists, not unity between Marxists, and opponents and distorters of Marxism.”
Vladimir I. Lenin, apparently known worker of the security state.
No left unity. Only Marxist unity and I say MLM’s of the Gonzalite variety (not those who uphold ML with MZT) must be vigorously challenged, excluded, and browbeaten as I think many of them are outright feds, provocateurs, adventurist-minded fools dangerous to themselves and the proletariat, etc. They are as suggested distorters in fact of Marxism. They call themselves Maoists but Mao in his prime would have had them shot or put in labor camps and the party that upholds Mao, that stems from Mao’s success is condemned by these clowns as are all successful revolutions.
Regarding my condemnation of left unity I think it is important to note that this is not to say our mission is to go out and beat up anarchists and disrupt them. I have no interest in bothering them but neither do I have any interest in hiding the fact we have real disagreements with them and they will be heard and made public. If we can ally strategically on anti-imperialist, anti-war positions and similar at marches then all the better, proud to march arm in arm but that is where it ends. And the fact is most western anarchists and so called MLM’s cannot be counted on to be on the same side with even remotely similar takes on anti-imperialism as us and as in power AES parties helming DoTP’s. In fact it is far more likely for us to find allies of opportunity among certain radical liberals like CodePINK who more correctly identify the bad actors and ones worthy of critical support better than these so-called “leftists”. And that says less for the state of radical liberals and more to the distortion and ignorance of these leftists.
So understand when we say no left unity. We do not mean we will cooperate with the security state against anarchists. We simply mean we have real differences, we will not set them down, will not set down proven dialectics, reasoned positions, etc in order to unite in some common front. It means we will air these things when we are not uniting in common cause at a rally, march, event, it means we will not silence Marxist critiques of the compatible left, the synthetic CIA left, and yes even of the truly independent anarchist left. It does not mean we will charge anarchist lines at protests or go into their bookshops and toss things about.
So understand we are not trying to make enemies of anarchists of the variety who strive for real anarchism (not vaushism or whatever nonsense these online liberals think it is). But we will also shrug off your arm if you put on our shoulder in hopes by doing so we’ll silence those who push too strenuously for Marxism-Leninism and against anarchism, MLM-ism and other distortions. We do not aim to punch you in the face, there are far better targets in the west for both causes at present than each other. But let us not lie and say we can march arm and arm forever, that we are joined at the hips, that we are true friends instead of allies with similar goals, different methods, and a variety of vigorous disagreements.
I wouldn’t say it is not working. Their podcast is a large part of why I found lemmygrad and now consider myself ML. Their individual videos probably played a larger role, but the podcast certainly helped.
If so then that’s great, but they’re casting way too wide a net, so to speak. Some listeners will become principled MLs, but if they’re churning out opportunists and Gonzaloites as well then they should really try to do something about it.
Ah, deprogram sub? They claim to be ML for some reason, yet there are ultra shit on main getting 1800 upvotes, dunking on ultras is getting banned for suspicious reasons like “do not post links to reactionary subs” when there is no link just screen, and there are bunch of absolutely nolife gonzaloists out there who are spamming every thread about it with their bullshit.
EDIT: holy shit there are like at least 5 threads about Gonzalo on main and everywhere the same few people are spamming nonsense and calling people white supremacist and Fujimori supporters. Btw one of those gonzaloists also post a lot of centrist shit about Ukraine.
The Gonzalite shit is very disappointing. It’s so frustrating because it’s an interesting sub and good on many things but the mods are too light-handed and may be ideologically problematic (certainly their rule on left unity {even though it’s mostly some variety of Marxists or Marxist-leaning opportunists there}).
Once again proving having rules against sectarianism is bad actually and not a good sign for a sub supposedly for a podcast, supposedly run by ML’s for the purpose of deprogramming liberals.
The sub is definitely on the minds (and under the skin) of a lot of liberals too as I’ve seen it posted to both TMOR, AHS, and I think SRD not to mention constantly being posted on by “anti-tankie” subs.
Whole thing brings back bad memories of the ultra coup on MoreTankieChapo.
Their takes on Ukraine are also imperfect, main line there seems to be “both sides bad” which is you know ignorant. Oh plenty of people with good takes on it, proper takes and they don’t get banned but lots of people very angry and upvoted pushing the both sides bad thing and the perfect off-ramp for these liberals who refuse to totally give up the propaganda of the imperialist capitalist reigning champion heavyweight hegemon (US/NATO) is to go ultra. Perfect moral superiority, smugness, sitting in arm-chairs shitting on others and feeling above it all.
Yes, i feel it’s currently on the verge of sliding into yet another ultra tube, and i have serious doubts about moderators of that sub, as mentioned i seen them remove ML content already few times under false pretext, but allow all kind of maoist content, and even something like uncommented Mao vs sparrow meme.
“Communists” denouncing left unity are literally doing the work of the security state
“Unity is a great thing and a great slogan. But what the workers’ cause needs is the unity of Marxists, not unity between Marxists, and opponents and distorters of Marxism.”
No left unity. Only Marxist unity and I say MLM’s of the Gonzalite variety (not those who uphold ML with MZT) must be vigorously challenged, excluded, and browbeaten as I think many of them are outright feds, provocateurs, adventurist-minded fools dangerous to themselves and the proletariat, etc. They are as suggested distorters in fact of Marxism. They call themselves Maoists but Mao in his prime would have had them shot or put in labor camps and the party that upholds Mao, that stems from Mao’s success is condemned by these clowns as are all successful revolutions.
Regarding my condemnation of left unity I think it is important to note that this is not to say our mission is to go out and beat up anarchists and disrupt them. I have no interest in bothering them but neither do I have any interest in hiding the fact we have real disagreements with them and they will be heard and made public. If we can ally strategically on anti-imperialist, anti-war positions and similar at marches then all the better, proud to march arm in arm but that is where it ends. And the fact is most western anarchists and so called MLM’s cannot be counted on to be on the same side with even remotely similar takes on anti-imperialism as us and as in power AES parties helming DoTP’s. In fact it is far more likely for us to find allies of opportunity among certain radical liberals like CodePINK who more correctly identify the bad actors and ones worthy of critical support better than these so-called “leftists”. And that says less for the state of radical liberals and more to the distortion and ignorance of these leftists.
So understand when we say no left unity. We do not mean we will cooperate with the security state against anarchists. We simply mean we have real differences, we will not set them down, will not set down proven dialectics, reasoned positions, etc in order to unite in some common front. It means we will air these things when we are not uniting in common cause at a rally, march, event, it means we will not silence Marxist critiques of the compatible left, the synthetic CIA left, and yes even of the truly independent anarchist left. It does not mean we will charge anarchist lines at protests or go into their bookshops and toss things about.
So understand we are not trying to make enemies of anarchists of the variety who strive for real anarchism (not vaushism or whatever nonsense these online liberals think it is). But we will also shrug off your arm if you put on our shoulder in hopes by doing so we’ll silence those who push too strenuously for Marxism-Leninism and against anarchism, MLM-ism and other distortions. We do not aim to punch you in the face, there are far better targets in the west for both causes at present than each other. But let us not lie and say we can march arm and arm forever, that we are joined at the hips, that we are true friends instead of allies with similar goals, different methods, and a variety of vigorous disagreements.
A lot of things from there gets reposted to deprogram.
I guess they can’t go too hard on libs since the point of the Deprogram is to deprogram libs.
I’ve seen this argument over and over, but where is the deprogramming? these people either stay libs or become ultras.
I wouldn’t say it is not working. Their podcast is a large part of why I found lemmygrad and now consider myself ML. Their individual videos probably played a larger role, but the podcast certainly helped.
If so then that’s great, but they’re casting way too wide a net, so to speak. Some listeners will become principled MLs, but if they’re churning out opportunists and Gonzaloites as well then they should really try to do something about it.
SAme
I haven’t kept up with the sub or the podcast tbh. It’s the usual thing I hear brought up anyway.
More like reprogram as ultras at this point, we are not talking about libs.
Nope