One pollster sees “flashing red” signs on youth turnout as Gen Z and millennial voters, who are not satisfied with either party, could again play a decisive role in the next election.
Honest questions, I would love to be wrong on all these.
What did they get done on guns? Mass shootings are almost double what they were in 2016, gun violence is still out of control.
Climate change? The Paris climate accord? The one that was non-binding and Trump just walked away from? Are you talking about tax credits and carbon taxes? We’re still on a freight train to climate disaster. There isn’t a lot of time for slow progress on this one.
Health care? Are you talking about Obamacare? I was actually ecstatic when this passed, I have pre-existing conditions that meant that I couldn’t even get health care, so at least I could get a plan now. What ended up actually happening is I was forced to pay monthly for a plan that didn’t actually cover anything short of getting hit by a bus, and that the insurance could deny any treatment my doctor suggested. I guess that’s something?
Student loans? That just got struck down by the supreme court, which other democrats like AOC were sounding the alarm about happening when it was first announced.
I consider getting something done when the problem is solved, not half-measures that make little to no meaningful progress.
I say this as someone who actively organizes for democratic causes, I canvas, I phone bank, I give any time I can afford to this stuff. It’s really hard to get people motivated when you can’t point to any meaningful progress on these issues, and it’s even harder to enact change when people who agree with you can’t even see that meaningful change hasn’t occurred.
I’m pretty deep on energy so I can speak to some of this.
There’s record investments going on right now in research on energy efficiency, thermal energy storage (duck curve), and renewable energy sources. Heat pumps are almost too trendy. It’s been nuts seeing the number of projects getting funded for research that never had a chance in the last administration. This research isn’t just theoretical, there is heavy interest in feasibility studies and impacts on implementation. This is especially true in engagement with smaller and medium sized businesses. We’re talking discounts of 50-70% (sometimes free).
There’s actually quite a few programs that exist federally for decreasing energy use and/or energy intensity (which in most cases means less carbon emissions) for industrial energy users. With the Biden admin, the outreach game has fundamentally changed and there has quite possibly never been this level of excitement before in the space. There is so much money in play here for businesses (we’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars per qualifying business per year) that professionals will recommend free federal programs before doing their own professional energy audits. Even with professional services, the government is still putting out major incentives.
The feds are even focused on giving experience in energy efficiency work that it could be done with an associate’s degree with job experience included instead of a traditional four year college. In some states, this is a free education.
There are tax incentives for buying electric cars, government fleets are moving to electric, revisions to CAFE standards and attempts to mitigate the loopholes that SUVs thrive in within it.
For larger businesses, tax incentives are not slow. They can be the deal breaker on whether the project happens at all. Discussing tax incentives, incredibly good loan programs, and grants can fundamentally change the tone of conversations. All of these topics are not theoretical, I am speaking from experience in conversations I have personally led. Shifts from “this is way too expensive” to “ok, we would be stupid not do this project.”
If you want further reading, concentrated solar power, combined heat and power, and hydrogen based energy are all popular and growing fields right now due to government investment in research and implementation. And again, I’m not talking pure theory here, these projects are actively being implemented in real scenarios right now. Heall, filtering biogas to produce methane is ridiculously profitable and reduces overall greenhouse gas emissions. Natural gas companies will literally pay waste water treatment plants to hook into their lines.
Drives me nuts when people talk about lack of climate progress. Sure, we haven’t become carbon neutral in two years, and there hasn’t been a fancy international agreement lately, but saying progress is slow or not getting done is a hot take. There is a lot happening right now and it isn’t always advertised. The energy efficiency industry, as far as I am aware and experienced, has never been this excited. We used to make arguments to businesses that energy efficiency was important, would save money, increase resiliency and so on. Now, they actively reach out.
I do not see this as impatience, I understand people are upset. It is difficult to see decades of work (many of these programs first started in the 70’s) on something I am very passionate about disregarded as inaction. That is the source of my comment. Slow? Yes. Underfunded? Historically yes. Inaction? No.
Believe me, if we could get carbon pricing started tomorrow, I would be exhilarated. Let’s kick up nuclear again.
Thanks for your well researched and thoughtful response, I really do appreciate it.
What I hear from most young people on the ground is global emissions are still rising, and climate catastrophe is already happening.
People won’t care about industrial energy efficiency when they don’t have a place to live because a wildfire destroyed their house. A tax break for an electric vehicle means nothing to a young person who can’t even afford a car loan. I can tell you of people I tried talking into getting their heating/ac/gas stove replaced with a heat pump/electric oven and tax-credit and were told they simply can’t afford the up front cost of replacing their HVAC or gas stove.
Climate change is here and it’s going to take a massive unified effort, democrats have to think bigger than tax breaks and loans.
Thanks for your well researched and thoughtful response, I really do appreciate it.
Of course :)
they simply can’t afford the up front cost of replacing their HVAC or gas stove.
I’m not as knowledgeable about residential, but there is some work here as well. There are some recent programs focused on weatherization, for example programs to reinsulate homes at no cost or to install new doors, but these are smaller and I believe means tested. Residential is hard because there just isn’t that much work to do that makes sense financially. For carbon, it is probably easier to enroll in a local utility’s green power programs and reduce/eliminate beef consumption than replace windows that aren’t broken. This is one of the biggest reasons why industrial energy is the focus because a home’s energy use (say, 200 kWh based on some of my apartment bills) is negligible compared to modestly sized businesses that consume millions of kWh annually. This is part of where progress in energy efficiency disappears.
I do have a colleague working on getting combined heat and power systems into homes, but we haven’t talked enough for me to comment much on it other than there is interest.
democrats have to think bigger than tax breaks and loans.
This is where alternative energy systems and investments in energy infrastructure come into play. Investments in research, feasibility, implementation.
People won’t care about industrial energy efficiency when they don’t have a place to live because a wildfire destroyed their house.
To be fair, in my experience most people don’t care already :). I have family members who call my job a joke, unfortunately. But yes, the inescapable results of our actions or lack thereof over the last two centuries of industrialization will continue to catch up. Every year another community burns up in my state and every year someone is ready to blame it on anything but climate change.
Compromise often results in a half-measure. I mean do you want to live in a democracy where unfortunately you have a lot of people who “want” (lots of misinformed/idiots imo) to ignore climate change or private insurance, etc, or do you want a dictator to take over and “fix” it all? Why are we pointing the finger at the Democrats not fully fixing any of those issues when the GOP is the exactly the reason for the half-measures.
That said, I think without the pressure from progressives on Biden and central Dems, you don’t even get an attempt at student loan forgiveness. Or whatever he’s going to do to try and workaround the BS scotus ruling. So I’m not against holding the democratic party accountable, just that no one ever holds the fucking GOP accountable and it gets a bit tiring to see people shit on Biden or dems in general for not being able to be as progressive as they want. There is another half of the US that unfortunately does not agree with you (or me).
People point the finger at democrats because they campaign on getting these things done, republicans don’t.
They have had real opportunities to get these things done, like I noted about single-payer healthcare in 2008. There was a clear mandate from the voting populous, a filibuster-proof super majority in the senate and a 31 seat majority in the house and compromise was made because the house caucus of Blue Dog Coalition of democrats didn’t want it, not republicans.
Biden just had a majority in the senate and house for two years and a mandate to act on student loans through filibuster-proof reconciliation. He was stopped by two democrats, not republicans.
They didn’t even repeal the Trump tax cuts that he campaigned on, which also could have been passed through reconciliation. Again, stopped by two democrats.
Child tax care credits were taken away in the budget , not by republicans, but by a single democrat.
You can say “Well, NO republicans voted for any of those things” but that’s exactly what the republicans were voted in to do.
So because 1-2 Democrats held up progress you’re going to support the party that had all 49-50 members opposed to your goals?
I empathize with your frustration with the Democratic party but voting 3rd party only puts the Republicans in power. The most useful thing to do within the current voting structure is to use the Primary Elections to try to nominate a more radical senator or representative that thinks like you.
So because 1-2 Democrats held up progress you’re going to support the party that had all 49-50 members opposed to your goals?
Jesus Christ, centrists need to stop this. Not everyone who is mad at Democrats for a decades long pattern of “ooooops! Just enough Democrats killed that progressive thing! lol vote harder!” supports Republicans.
What, you didn’t know? The way to drive youth turnout is to constantly scold them for any criticism they have of the democratic party and blame them for any defeat.
I think the issue is the definition of “supports”.
If you take your (valid) frustration out in the general election then yes, you are supporting republicans in a very material way. For example voting for a 3rd party or not voting (e.g. helping a republican win).
If, on the other hand, you get involved in primaries and donate to candidates that better align with your goals, even to the point of forwarding dems that might lose in the general election then you’re not supporting republicans — you’re instead supporting the left side of the dems (and are willing to lose if you need to). The idea is similar to how the radical right wing has captured the republican party. Do the same for your position.
What really annoys people (it pisses me the fuck off) are people that see the dems lose by a vote or two, because some fuck dem sided with the republicans, and therefore decide that both parties are the same or that their best bet is to support republicans more. Its such a lousy non-nuanced view that it just highlights why the black&white super right wing “fuck nuance” people are winning.
What pisses me off is when someone sees Democrats find just enough no votes like fucking always and is unhappy about it, and is then greeted with “both sides! bot! russian republican troll!”
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support republicans and won’t vote for a third party. But I completely empathize with disaffected youth voters and see where they’re coming from.
I do vote in local elections, in fact my local party just won a special election to get one of those like-minded candidates to city council!
Honest questions, I would love to be wrong on all these.
What did they get done on guns? Mass shootings are almost double what they were in 2016, gun violence is still out of control.
Climate change? The Paris climate accord? The one that was non-binding and Trump just walked away from? Are you talking about tax credits and carbon taxes? We’re still on a freight train to climate disaster. There isn’t a lot of time for slow progress on this one.
Health care? Are you talking about Obamacare? I was actually ecstatic when this passed, I have pre-existing conditions that meant that I couldn’t even get health care, so at least I could get a plan now. What ended up actually happening is I was forced to pay monthly for a plan that didn’t actually cover anything short of getting hit by a bus, and that the insurance could deny any treatment my doctor suggested. I guess that’s something?
Student loans? That just got struck down by the supreme court, which other democrats like AOC were sounding the alarm about happening when it was first announced.
I consider getting something done when the problem is solved, not half-measures that make little to no meaningful progress.
I say this as someone who actively organizes for democratic causes, I canvas, I phone bank, I give any time I can afford to this stuff. It’s really hard to get people motivated when you can’t point to any meaningful progress on these issues, and it’s even harder to enact change when people who agree with you can’t even see that meaningful change hasn’t occurred.
I’m pretty deep on energy so I can speak to some of this.
There’s record investments going on right now in research on energy efficiency, thermal energy storage (duck curve), and renewable energy sources. Heat pumps are almost too trendy. It’s been nuts seeing the number of projects getting funded for research that never had a chance in the last administration. This research isn’t just theoretical, there is heavy interest in feasibility studies and impacts on implementation. This is especially true in engagement with smaller and medium sized businesses. We’re talking discounts of 50-70% (sometimes free).
There’s actually quite a few programs that exist federally for decreasing energy use and/or energy intensity (which in most cases means less carbon emissions) for industrial energy users. With the Biden admin, the outreach game has fundamentally changed and there has quite possibly never been this level of excitement before in the space. There is so much money in play here for businesses (we’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars per qualifying business per year) that professionals will recommend free federal programs before doing their own professional energy audits. Even with professional services, the government is still putting out major incentives.
The feds are even focused on giving experience in energy efficiency work that it could be done with an associate’s degree with job experience included instead of a traditional four year college. In some states, this is a free education.
There are tax incentives for buying electric cars, government fleets are moving to electric, revisions to CAFE standards and attempts to mitigate the loopholes that SUVs thrive in within it.
For larger businesses, tax incentives are not slow. They can be the deal breaker on whether the project happens at all. Discussing tax incentives, incredibly good loan programs, and grants can fundamentally change the tone of conversations. All of these topics are not theoretical, I am speaking from experience in conversations I have personally led. Shifts from “this is way too expensive” to “ok, we would be stupid not do this project.”
If you want further reading, concentrated solar power, combined heat and power, and hydrogen based energy are all popular and growing fields right now due to government investment in research and implementation. And again, I’m not talking pure theory here, these projects are actively being implemented in real scenarios right now. Heall, filtering biogas to produce methane is ridiculously profitable and reduces overall greenhouse gas emissions. Natural gas companies will literally pay waste water treatment plants to hook into their lines.
Drives me nuts when people talk about lack of climate progress. Sure, we haven’t become carbon neutral in two years, and there hasn’t been a fancy international agreement lately, but saying progress is slow or not getting done is a hot take. There is a lot happening right now and it isn’t always advertised. The energy efficiency industry, as far as I am aware and experienced, has never been this excited. We used to make arguments to businesses that energy efficiency was important, would save money, increase resiliency and so on. Now, they actively reach out.
Drives me nuts when people mischaracterize anger fostered by decades of inaction as impatience.
I do not see this as impatience, I understand people are upset. It is difficult to see decades of work (many of these programs first started in the 70’s) on something I am very passionate about disregarded as inaction. That is the source of my comment. Slow? Yes. Underfunded? Historically yes. Inaction? No.
Believe me, if we could get carbon pricing started tomorrow, I would be exhilarated. Let’s kick up nuclear again.
Thanks for your well researched and thoughtful response, I really do appreciate it.
What I hear from most young people on the ground is global emissions are still rising, and climate catastrophe is already happening.
People won’t care about industrial energy efficiency when they don’t have a place to live because a wildfire destroyed their house. A tax break for an electric vehicle means nothing to a young person who can’t even afford a car loan. I can tell you of people I tried talking into getting their heating/ac/gas stove replaced with a heat pump/electric oven and tax-credit and were told they simply can’t afford the up front cost of replacing their HVAC or gas stove.
Climate change is here and it’s going to take a massive unified effort, democrats have to think bigger than tax breaks and loans.
Of course :)
I’m not as knowledgeable about residential, but there is some work here as well. There are some recent programs focused on weatherization, for example programs to reinsulate homes at no cost or to install new doors, but these are smaller and I believe means tested. Residential is hard because there just isn’t that much work to do that makes sense financially. For carbon, it is probably easier to enroll in a local utility’s green power programs and reduce/eliminate beef consumption than replace windows that aren’t broken. This is one of the biggest reasons why industrial energy is the focus because a home’s energy use (say, 200 kWh based on some of my apartment bills) is negligible compared to modestly sized businesses that consume millions of kWh annually. This is part of where progress in energy efficiency disappears.
I do have a colleague working on getting combined heat and power systems into homes, but we haven’t talked enough for me to comment much on it other than there is interest.
This is where alternative energy systems and investments in energy infrastructure come into play. Investments in research, feasibility, implementation.
To be fair, in my experience most people don’t care already :). I have family members who call my job a joke, unfortunately. But yes, the inescapable results of our actions or lack thereof over the last two centuries of industrialization will continue to catch up. Every year another community burns up in my state and every year someone is ready to blame it on anything but climate change.
Compromise often results in a half-measure. I mean do you want to live in a democracy where unfortunately you have a lot of people who “want” (lots of misinformed/idiots imo) to ignore climate change or private insurance, etc, or do you want a dictator to take over and “fix” it all? Why are we pointing the finger at the Democrats not fully fixing any of those issues when the GOP is the exactly the reason for the half-measures.
That said, I think without the pressure from progressives on Biden and central Dems, you don’t even get an attempt at student loan forgiveness. Or whatever he’s going to do to try and workaround the BS scotus ruling. So I’m not against holding the democratic party accountable, just that no one ever holds the fucking GOP accountable and it gets a bit tiring to see people shit on Biden or dems in general for not being able to be as progressive as they want. There is another half of the US that unfortunately does not agree with you (or me).
People point the finger at democrats because they campaign on getting these things done, republicans don’t.
They have had real opportunities to get these things done, like I noted about single-payer healthcare in 2008. There was a clear mandate from the voting populous, a filibuster-proof super majority in the senate and a 31 seat majority in the house and compromise was made because the house caucus of Blue Dog Coalition of democrats didn’t want it, not republicans.
Biden just had a majority in the senate and house for two years and a mandate to act on student loans through filibuster-proof reconciliation. He was stopped by two democrats, not republicans.
They didn’t even repeal the Trump tax cuts that he campaigned on, which also could have been passed through reconciliation. Again, stopped by two democrats.
Child tax care credits were taken away in the budget , not by republicans, but by a single democrat.
You can say “Well, NO republicans voted for any of those things” but that’s exactly what the republicans were voted in to do.
So because 1-2 Democrats held up progress you’re going to support the party that had all 49-50 members opposed to your goals?
I empathize with your frustration with the Democratic party but voting 3rd party only puts the Republicans in power. The most useful thing to do within the current voting structure is to use the Primary Elections to try to nominate a more radical senator or representative that thinks like you.
Jesus Christ, centrists need to stop this. Not everyone who is mad at Democrats for a decades long pattern of “ooooops! Just enough Democrats killed that progressive thing! lol vote harder!” supports Republicans.
What, you didn’t know? The way to drive youth turnout is to constantly scold them for any criticism they have of the democratic party and blame them for any defeat.
I think the issue is the definition of “supports”.
If you take your (valid) frustration out in the general election then yes, you are supporting republicans in a very material way. For example voting for a 3rd party or not voting (e.g. helping a republican win).
If, on the other hand, you get involved in primaries and donate to candidates that better align with your goals, even to the point of forwarding dems that might lose in the general election then you’re not supporting republicans — you’re instead supporting the left side of the dems (and are willing to lose if you need to). The idea is similar to how the radical right wing has captured the republican party. Do the same for your position.
What really annoys people (it pisses me the fuck off) are people that see the dems lose by a vote or two, because some fuck dem sided with the republicans, and therefore decide that both parties are the same or that their best bet is to support republicans more. Its such a lousy non-nuanced view that it just highlights why the black&white super right wing “fuck nuance” people are winning.
What pisses me off is when someone sees Democrats find just enough no votes like fucking always and is unhappy about it, and is then greeted with “both sides! bot! russian republican troll!”
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support republicans and won’t vote for a third party. But I completely empathize with disaffected youth voters and see where they’re coming from.
I do vote in local elections, in fact my local party just won a special election to get one of those like-minded candidates to city council!
Republicans fucked up every one of those things.