The report is absolutely scathing. Some choice quotes:
But when the next crisis came, both the US and the governments of Europe fell back on old models of alliance leadership. Europe, as EU high representative for foreign affairs Josep Borrell loudly lamented prior to Russiaās invasion, is not really at the table when it comes to dealing with the Russia-Ukraine crisis. It has instead embarked on a process of vassalisation.
But āaloneā had a very specific meaning for Scholz. He was unwilling to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine unless the US also sent its own main battle tank, the M1 Abrams. It was not enough that other partners would send tanks or that the US might send other weapons. Like a scared child in a room full of strangers, Germany felt alone if Uncle Sam was not holding its hand.
Europeansā lack of agency in the Russia-Ukraine crisis stems from this growing power imbalance in the Western alliance. Under the Biden administration, the US has become ever more willing to exercise this growing influence.
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Becoming rather rude are we?
Yes, but the point is not about āmatchingā the EU but only Ukraine. Iām not insisting on this line of thought about Europe and Russia fighting a fictional all out war, so Iād advise you to drop it as well. Instead focus on your first claim that āRussia canāt match Ukraineā and actually argue against what I have said there, instead of some anachronistic hypothetical. Russia has spent the last 1 year mostly occupying their claimed lands, despite the full mobilisation of Ukraine and their NATO arsenal and training, who is only now finally maybe making some headway. I would say that they have at least āmatchedā Ukraine there. They donāt need to invade the entirety of Ukraine because that was never their stated goal. It is okay to admit you were being hyperbolic there.
The rest, again, is tangential and beside the point of the argument over the āmatching Ukraine so farā point. Valuable? Yes. But is not related to my original point. Iād rather you focused on the above rather than the following as this is getting too tangential into the morality of war.
So, it was never a demand from Ukraine at the negotiating table to stop those relocations or to allow inspections? If it was, did Russia never respond? If we are just assuming things rather than providing sources we canāt make much progress here.
Not sure what you mean there. How exactly is it more imperialist for Russia to annex regions that have significant Russian and Ukrainian populations, but not for Ukraine to annex them back? Imperialism bad, sure, but if you define imperialism binarily youāre not gonna go very far considering how complex the question of ethnicity and self-determination is in border regions. If Ukraine somehow wins and joins NATO, this will also surely have imperialist repercussions as that organisation is the ultimate imperial bloc worldwide. So should Ukraine then avoid NATO because of a binary notion of imperialism?
I donāt refer to evacuating civilians in occupied areas, but rather the rest of Ukraine under Ukrainian control. Men aged over 18 have been forbidden from leaving Ukraine. Families have to bend over backwards to reunite in the rest of Europe. If the lives of Ukrainian civilians is important (and I believe it is), the first priority should be relocating all those who donāt wish to participate in this war. And use all that NATO tech for that as well. Then we can think about more operations like counter-offensives.
Not as individuals, yes. But you probably have a government that is very keen to support more Ukrainian war efforts but not so keen to support Ukrainian and Russian refugees fleeing the war. And this is an internet forum, so what Iām saying here is not directed only at you, so hopefully some people question this notion that we need more deaths to save some lives. Either way, this was all about pedantically correcting your statement implying that Ukraine has been overwhelmingly winning against a Russian offensive, which is not really the case.
Also I donāt recommend ever summing up a whole ethnic group as having a single position or tendency. Youāll find that some Ukrainians actually just want their basic necessities met wherever in the world they are. Others are furries. People are diverse.
This is not about pacifism, it is about being pragmatic. Throwing in more soldiers to die has not proven effective at saving innocent Ukrainians. Weāve had 300 thousand dead now. The land is not people, and if you want to save people instead of land, youāll have to accept some land losses. After a ceasefire, itāll be much easier to negotiate human rights inspections and evacuate all Ukrainians who donāt wish to remain in the new Russian domains. But sticking stubbornly to some possible future in which the Russian forces are driven out through sheer willpower and NATO hardware does nothing to help those people right now. If some heads have to roll, sure, but how many heads, both Ukrainian and Russian, have to roll before we recognise that this is not really working?
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Please no needless rudeness, thancc. Also you forgot to respond to the absolute only thing I actually care about (the āRussia canāt match Ukraineā while Russia controls their war goals contradiction), while talking a lot about a bunch tangential stuff I explicitly mentioned is besides the point. Could you properly address that bit rather than focusing on unrelated morality questions?
I have, just this morning in fact. The blades of grass sadly donāt bring news about European wars. You might not be aware, but the world outside cares very little about this one war. Please answer the question or ignore it, but thereās no need to be this aggressive for a basic curious question. If you care so much about Ukraine, you could provide the info you have rather than attack me for asking. And if you think this answer is so obvious, instead provide me a link.
You seem to misunderstand what I said there. I am not advocating for the Russian forces to āevacuateā Ukrainians from the warzone, but rather for the Ukraine government to evacuate all civilians who canāt or donāt wish to contribute to the war to their western allies in Europe. That is not happening right now, and could possibly save many lives. Could even use those NATO transports. Itās not good for the war cause, yes, but it would save lives.
No idea what that is about. Sadly I donāt know Russian and get most of my news from popular European and Unitedstadian outlets, so I find it hard to believe Iām getting it from the Kremlin. If that is just a knee-jerk reaction to the previous misunderstanding, I apologise I guess.
Thank you for the correction. In either case, itās a lot of people dead, specially on the Russian side. I think the point still stands there.
I donāt see any Russians here advocating for the continuation of the war, do you? If they were Iād equally push back at their ideas. But the reality here is that they control some regions, and kindly asking a military to forgo all of its conquests will mean that the war was for nothing. Meanwhile, Zelenskyās administration in conjunction with NATO seems intent on dragging this war out until either Russia loses all conquests or every able-bodied Ukrainian is dead. Now which sounds more viable as a peace talk demand, for Russia to forgo every conquest theyāve spent Russian lives, labour and capital on, and also pay a bunch of reparations on top of their sanctions, or for Ukraine to accept its current de facto domain and work within it to safeguard the lives of Ukrainians in all lands without having to send more troops on counter-offensive after counter-offensive? Neither is a pleasant choice, but there are no pleasant choices in war.
And then I guess we circle back to the old point where Russia has already pretty much achieved its goal and is just fighting to keep what land they grabbed at this point. I think itās just a matter of opinion on what is āunrealisticā, as I also find it very unrealistic to believe some invading army would just give up on its conquests, specially if they believe their own rhetoric (and Iām pretty sure a bunch of them do) of trying to prevent NATO encroachment and protecting the Russians in the now annexed lands. Could the same case for āunrealisticā not be applied to Ukrainians who demand such capitulation? If āUkraine will fight until itās freeā, itās safe to assume that the war will go on until either every able-bodied Ukrainian (who hasnāt fled illegally) is dead or victory is achieved. I would certainly not support some government in marshal law that puts in practice such a plan.
Linus Torvalds is famous for his C programming skills, not his communication capabilities. It would be less of a waste of both our times if you spent your words on information rather than petty insults.
Sorry, I donāt read European poetry. can I interest you in some Funk?
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I actually only want you to address one specific point, but you keep bringing up completely irrelevant cultural or moral tangents and neglecting to keep the conversation on the very material subject on which I started this conversation. I am merely addressing those points and specifically how they donāt matter to this discussion. If I may say so, it looks like youāre intentionally avoiding the subject.
If I need to repeat myself yet again, how come āRussia canāt even match Ukraineā if, as youāve implied multiple times, Ukraine is dependant on NATO support (a group theyāre no part of) to push back the current Russian occupation that has remained more or less in place for over an year? And how does this entire 1 year history of war not show that Russia has actually at least matched Ukraine? Possible future prospects or āwhat couldāve happenedā donāt matter when analysing the reality of the past 1 year of the war.
It is completely okay to admit you were being hyperbolic there, but you insist in not even acknowledging those points, much less arguing against them, while trying to lecture me about some intrinsic characteristic of Slavic peoples.
Random moral and ethnic tangents from somebody who canāt stop.
And yet, men aged over 18 are barred from leaving. According to the UN, 90% of those who left are women and children. Iām sure you donāt actually think every single Ukrainian adult man wants to stay. Many are doing unconventional methods to bypass this ban, which are not accessible to all. Believe it or not, but some people donāt want to fight. Keeping them there against their will does not save Ukrainian lives.
So what youāre saying is that NATO news outlets that bend over backwards to support Ukraine are actually parroting propaganda from their enemy? Are the only reliable propaganda-less sources the Ukraine military and the youtubers youāve mentioned at this point? Also Iām pretty sure not everybody is a Ukraine nerd in Europe, so the European news would still have to explain how Slavic peoples are so different and how that uniqueness impacts the war, which has had severe material impacts to all of Europe. Iām pretty sure not everybody in your neighbourhood is an expert in both the Scots, Portuguese and Libyans.
Wouldāve, couldāve, shouldāve. This is all speculation that 1) Ukraine is going to win, or 2) Poland would go against NATO to participate in the war. Either way, it still demands more blood for the blood god which is a weird way of saying āyes, I think itās safe to assume that escalation will follow rather than cutting losses in case Ukraine doesnāt winā. I guess in order to save Ukraine every Eastern European should go die and kill there? Is this about saving Ukrainian lives or Ukrainian soil at this point?
Which goes directly in the face of your portrayal of them as being unrealistic in their demands. If in order to get your peace demand you need to completely shift the tide of the war, maybe your demand is the most tenuous one. āRealisticā demands for peace include only what is practical for both sides to achieve in the current moment, not ones that might be possible in some future that one side hopes for.
I guess I misspoke but I have no interest on Russian literature or poetry, but rather the material realities of the people, whatever their ethnicity and culture. No song is going to inform me about whether or not Russia currently controls Donetsk or Crimea, and insistence on such subjective media rather than the established facts brings nothing of use to the table. And again, summarising one entire diverse country by a single song seems awfully simplistic.
I donāt think I need āUkraine and its peopleā to agree with me on this seem Iām not talking to them right now and theyāre not a single hivemind with only one opinion. As youāve said, 20% of them have even fled, though you also failed to provide a source. What Iām stating is a simple statement, āRussia has achieved its war goals and therefore has matched Ukraineā, and instead of explaining why Iām wrong you keep deferring to songs, youtubers and some bizarrely reductionist notions of ethnicity. If you donāt wish to talk about it, donāt waste your typing fingers beating around the bush. You seem to be mixing your moral feelings about the war with your material analyses, and thatās generally not helpful even if you end up correct in the end by a stroke of luck.
But if you do want to actually explain to me how āRussia canāt even match Ukraineā despite the course of the war so far, without resorting to hopes and dreams and speculation or including foreign factors like NATO support, Iām all ears actually.
Iāll actually eat my food like any other day. Iāll not even shed a tear or smile. Believe it or not, I donāt spend much of my time thinking about this war amidst all other world issues. I donāt have any stake in it and I donāt care which side wins in the end, which is why I donāt bother speculating on the future. Iām rather interested in this war ending whatever it takes with the least harm done to all peoples, and if it takes the Russian annexation of lands it currently controls, the human rights situations can be sorted in peacetime. Besides, this war is really annoying for global geopolitics even though nobody even knew where Ukraine was on the map 2 years ago. Theyāre not that relevant out there to anybody but Eurocentrists.
lmao imagine thinking that some generic European anthem is a banger compared to Funk music or literally any genre from outside Europe. Canāt wait to listen to the baroque choir on my Spotify. āDeutschland Deutschland Ć¼ber alles, Ć¼ber alles in die Weltā derivatives is definitely something the world loves listening to. Is there even good music coming from Europe since Daft Punk retired?
But since you offered, I offer you back Guantanamera as an olive branch, because Iāve been listening to it the other day.
Reminder: Russia has matched Ukraine militarily, and Ukraine is just now possibly getting to match it back. This is not a moral statement. Reply to that first, then you can proceed to tell me about your understanding the intricacies of Slavic culture.
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There we have it. Thank you for finally stopping the assumption that Iām arguing some grander point than I was. Russia can match Ukraine. We can move on from this now. Only took some 10 replies.
You do know that there are other reasons for people to not want to be in a warzone other than āprotecting wifeā, donāt you? Not going into the Somalia/Germany comparison there, but there are people, be they bakers, engineers or even soldiers, that have fled from Ukraine, but are legally barred to do so. What do you think of those men who only wish to leave Ukraine and the war but legally canāt? Iād bet there are even some ethnic Russians and other minorities from Ukraine thatād rather not be part of it too. Not to protect some elusive wife, but to protect themselves.
Then weāre just arguing semantics. Russia currently controls most of the claimed regions and if God demanded an armistice theyād keep most of it. It is up to the Ukrainian forces to change that if they insist on war. They donāt need to wait for some formal declaration of peace so long as they hold the regions. They have de facto achieved their goals. Both Korean countries claims jurisdiction over all Korea, but they donāt have much authority in each other lands. It would be plainly ignorant for either to demand the other to unconditionally cede their domain. But it would also be nonsensical to claim then that either is trouncing the other given they canāt push each other out of their respective domains. The ball is on Ukraineās court to take the lands back if they so wish, which means theyāre on the losing side right now. Youāre missing the forest for the trees on that one.
Iām confused. Where are the Tankies in this? Are we Trump? The USA? Europe? The Leopards? If you people are at war with each other and the USA helps out, what do we have to do with it? Are we asking the USA to defend or attack Europe? Very confusing.
Or do you refer to the USA protecting European capitalist interests (which donāt include the interests of the working class Europeans) by destabilising foreign powers that pose a threat to European imperialism? Well, if that is the case, Iām not sure how the wars on Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan, or the dozen interventions in America Proper helped the working class Europeans. If yāall really donāt like the Unitedstadian support, please do ask for a referendum to leave or disband NATO. Youāll find plenty of leftist support worldwide.
Ah yes, Unitedstadians havenāt been famously killing and oppressing their own before Putin got into power. The FBI is a KGB branch and all.
sounds neat, reminds me of this monster hunter track
Iām sorry, neither of those are really that popular out there. K-pop, Funk and hip-hop variants are really blooming though. Also why is the Ukrainian one German and singing in English? Either way, have yet another cultural wonder from far away.
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