I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but threads or comments about Lemmy or the Fediverse get downvoted a lot on Reddit and trolls who claim that it’s “dogshit” and “not going anywhere” get systematically upvoted.
Some of those trolls get then exposed when you ask them what Lemmy instance they tried and one of them with whom I had a surreal exchange answered with something like “yeah ofc I used Lemmy, this is the instance: join-lemmy.org” 🤦♂️
It’s frustrating that these trolls keep contributing to the big lie that “Lemmy is not ready yet” and that there’s “no viable alternative to Reddit”.
This and the overwhelming number of comments being “against the mod protests” just prompts me to question whether there isn’t some brigading being organized straight from the Reddit HQ.
Probably bots. Reddit has been using them for some time, but recently got caught using chat gpt or something similar to argue against the blackouts.
The majority aren‘t bots. Most of them are legit no lifers to whom Reddit going down the drain would be a huge blow. I mean you work full time as a cashier for taco bell and you are not really happy with that situation. Some people go to school again, learn a skill… others spend all their time one Reddit stockpiling karma. Those are the people who really hate lemmy and anything that could remotely make Reddit worse, because they are heavily invested in the platform for the wrong reasons.
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I’ve noticed this. A lot of people seem mad at the users and subs leaving, not so much the dumb CEO
Do you have a source for this claim? I’m very interested in reading about it
That’s pathetic lmao.
that is pretty conclusive
It really feels like that is happening in /r/lotrmemes – https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/14cekxa/shall_we_continue_the_blackout_poll_round_2/
Which is fking insane since one of Steve’s excuses for upping API pricing so high is to fight LLM from training on “their” dataset! Fucking LOL
Unfortunately there’s probably a large amount of users who simply don’t care.
But that’s okay. What matters is content creators, not content consumers. Anyone with half a gram of decency and self integrity will have realized that they need to take steps to move away from Reddit.
When the content creators leave and go to Lemmy/Kbin, eventually those content consumers will leave and go with them too. Will be a bonus for the Fediverse
We need to ask Louis Rossmann to join the fediverse. He’s been super critical with Reddit on YouTube.
I’m sure he’s already aware and will make an account if he wants to.
There’s no point in shoving the Fediverse in someone’s face.
Some slight reassurance never hurt anyone, that’s worlds from advertising or pushing though.
Dumb question… Sorry, what’s kbin? I’ve seen it mentioned together to Lemmy, but it’s all rather new to me.
Kbin, like Mastodon and Lemmy, is another way to interact with the fediverse through ActivityPub. Like Lemmy, it’s similar to reddit in style.
It’s another piece of software that seeks to provide a federated experience similar to reddit. It is pretty cool! It also has pretty good support for browsing Lemmy instances, and Activity Pub messages that are . Definitely recommend checking it out. I think it can coexist very healthily alongside Lemmy.
I care and I’m here. I count as do all of us! Fuck ‘em!
Exactly. Let the milquetoast mouth-breathers stay behind. With sufficient brain-drain, Reddit will eventually look like Quora.
Once - unfortunately - Apollo app will be down, in less than 2 weeks, I’m pretty sure Lemmy will surge and they will come complaining here 😅
Maybe. It’s not like there’s a Lemmy app (for iOS) that’s as good as Apollo.
Have you tried Jerboa for Lemmy? It is not Apollo but it is comfortable and ads free
Jerboa is for Android. Apollo is for iOS.
Memmy is in TestFlight if you fancied being a tester.
Same with mlem. It’s a little ahead of memmy in development right now.
Mlem has become really good since they updated the app two days ago.
They really need to fix some of their accessibility issues. Comment text cannot be resized which makes it impossible for me to use the app. Memmy respects the dynamic text sizing in iOS, so I’m using it for now. It’s not up to feature parity with Mlem but the developer is doing a great job with adding features.
Memmy also works natively on iPad. Mlem has just a zoomed iPhone version.
I hope they soon implement that proper dark mode, image zoom and search tool but yes since mlem the only reason i still open Apollo is to laugh seeing reddit burn :3
Beta full unfortunately at the moment it seems
Legit surprised how good Jerboa is tbh
What I am using for android and its not RIF but it is not bad and allows me to join this community on mobile which is how I use social media.
I do constructive things on PC.
I’m already seeing an increase in trolling and spam across the Lemmy and Kbin instances. Hopefully the mods can handle the influx.
Yep, they will definitely come complaining here.
I miss Apollo everyday. I haven’t used it since the blackout in solidarity.
What if Apollo just adapted to lenny instead of
Neoliberals and saying “there is no alternative”, name a more iconic duo
The wheel of history will succumb redditors who refuse to accept that their system will pass just as all other before it have.
Spam-bots and strange links.
Neoliberals and bootlicking status quo
(Its all the same)
what does that have to with neoliberals lol
Probably a lot. They love bootlicking
I think there’s truth to some of the “not ready” claims… and this is coming from someone who really tried to get into Lemmy, ended up creating their own instance (as demonstrated by my user handle).
A few issues I think Lemmy dev team really need to address ASAP, from least technical (thus affecting most users) to more technical (this affecting less users) are:
1. UX/Discoverability – Finding communities are a huge pain in the backend right now, and with multiple communities on different instances serving same purpose (i.e.: !reddit@lemmy.ml and !reddit@lemmy.world). Sure, Reddit had same issues (the example I’ve heard is /r/meirl and /r/me_irl), but Reddit offered solution (multi on old reddit, community+community on new reddit). There must be a way to streamline it with meta-communities or lists on Lemmy such that the contents can be viewed in a unified fashion. I recommended
!community@(note the lack of domain) to streamline all of user’s subscriptions with same name on different instances as an example; and perhaps we can use#list$user@lemmy.domainfor users’s maintained lists to unify!homelab@lemmy.ml,!datahoarder@lemmy.ml,!homelab@lemmy.world, etc.).2. Trigger happy defederation hubs – a certain instance has unceremoniously de-federated a couple of other larger instances. This is not the way, but here we are, with users on those instances not able to access the broader Fediverse, and vice versa. Until discoverability gets taken care of, it will be challenging for users to find a good home – this leads to next point:
3. Authentication – The Fediverse at large needs to separate authentication out from instances. Instances may provide their own authentication, fine, but there needs to be better way to authenticate against something else other than an entire new instance of Lemmy. The ActivityPub protocol has clear definitions on what is an actor, and users shouldn’t need to deploy a Lemmy instance to identify themselves, separately from a Mastadon instance to identify themselves, separately from a… etc. This is because frankly…
4. Deployment of Lemmy is utter garbage. The official documentation’s getting started guide gets users setup with an instance where the UI container cannot talk to public, but the lemmy backend can? Why bother shipping an nginx container if the backend will just expose itself to the whole wide net? Also, let’s just pretend postgres container isn’t open to the whole world with a basic password… Trying to get it up and running with Traefik was a pain, just do a quick Google and see how many people have asked and gave up, as well as how many different ways people have tried to go at it (something something xkcd 927; I’ve contributed to a new one of my own per linked post on top!), and the dev basically just straight up going ‘we don’t support traefik’… also, each approach is not without problems…
5. Federation is a removed. I am pretty proud of the way I’ve used override to not edit original docker compose, and locked my setup down a little. But, I’m not ready to have the instance open to the whole wide web without CloudFlare in front… but allegedly, Federation doesn’t work with CloudFlare… why? Good luck trying to get to even a popular sub’s scale without getting hit with DDOS when someone disagrees with something someone else posted.
There’s many more problems, and I genuinely want Lemmy to work. But, Lemmy is, lack of better words, “not yet ready” for prime time. It is thrown into the spotlight with Mastadon (which feels a bit more mature, at least from reading the docs) because of bad leadership at mega techs… It will take a lot of work for Lemmy to evolve and mature, before it can be “ready” to really absorb the mass of Redditors leaving Reddit.
- That certain community is beehaw.org by any chance? They also ask you to write pretty much an essay to join, and didn’t accept mine.
Not a lot of value in singling any community out… I think if it keeps up, eventually, they will just flip to private instances and de-federate themselves away from the larger fediverse…
I have an account on beehaw and I wrote like three sentences and was accepted, I wrote the same thing here on lemmy.ml not being accepted is probably more of an attribute of you
Regarding #2, I think not defederating might be an easier sell if users had the ability to block instances. Right not it’s just users and communities. Hate lemmygrad? You can block its communities one by one, but it’s kind of a pain. So instances only have the option of a full block.
Lemmygrad is a great instance, western chauvinist.
Lemmygrad is thoroughly obnoxious. Full stop. Also, you clearly have no idea what western chauvinism is if you’re calling me one.
You for the past 3 years have been specifically propping up on Lemmy anything that aligns with NATO, while talking in a cheesy manner. You are the classical hideous western chauvinist. You hate Lemmygrad because you hate communism, and love neoliberal capitalism. Period.
Lemmygrad is not obnoxious, it is Anglosphere that is. Lemmygrad is pretty factual regarding history and geopolitics, and is the exact opposite of Anglo participants on internet. You hate Lemmygrad because they are anti imperialism.
You hate Lemmygrad because you hate communism
I dislike it because it is a personality cult and worships governments that have not earned that praise. Communism doesn’t enter into it. While I’m not communist, I don’t hate it. It has some interesting insights, but it’s hard to ignore that in practice it usually just makes a new ruling class that has no intention of ever releasing power. I’m interested to see where China goes over the next few decades as it shifts from playing catch up (easy productivity gains) to reaching parity (harder productivity gains).
western chauvinist
neoliberalism
At this point, you’re just picking pejoratives out of a hat marked “disagrees with me”. I don’t believe in Western superiority, even if I believe in certain values that are widely espoused in the West (free speech, democracy, etc.). But I’m not shy about being critical of my country when it goes astray from my values. And I’m free to do so because I live in a country where that is a right. Would you do the same for China? Would you feel safe doing so if you lived in China?
And for the record, my family has a long history of appreciating cultures around the world. I just don’t like authoritarianism, populism, and kleptocracy, regardless of what political brand is associated with it.
I dislike it because it is a personality cult and worships governments that have not earned that praise. Communism doesn’t enter into it.
It just coincidentally happens that all your history says otherwise. Years of your comments just being delusional abstractions, coincidentally siding with whoever is against China/Russia/Iran et al. It is definitely not a pattern, it is just mere coincidence. You have no degree of nuance, and its always hairsplitting aimed towards a goal of western neoliberal virtue signalling.
Countries that you say have not “earned that praise” happen to be countries that have not committed the atrocities that Anglo empire commits, which is funny since you do oppose the countries that do not commit atrocities, siding with the ones that do.
Again, you confirm my claims of western chauvinism, by claiming democracy is a “widely espoused” western principle. And it is funny, how China is more democratic than USA, since you bring that up. Hong Kong during the Basic Law issue had a poll conducted where citizens agreed to USA being a bigger threat to their democracy and freedom, than China would be. Guess what, Hong Kong does rank above USA on the Freedom Index, so there goes your argument.
Why has Assange not been freed in USA, land of the genocide, where he was extradited from UK? Why does Snowden live in arch enemy country of USA? How did Chelsea Manning suddenly become a NATO parrot? How come Daniel Hale suffered so much?
The fact is you love western neoliberal virtue signalling and Anglo supremacy, because you benefit from those atrocities and overseas superimperialist exploitation. Every government is authoritarian, socialists are just honest about it whereas liberals and conservatives are dishonest and malicious. You already are a populist when you parrot neoliberal trash. Kleptocracy probably best applies to USA, considering legalised and even fashionable lobbyist culture, where Europe is a very close second. Bribing and lobbying happens in all countries, but it happens the most in the countries that are on top of the superimperialist capitalist countries which are all Western, considering the transfer of wealth by means of imperialist plundery and loot has always been done by Anglos to East.
It’s sort of an asshole problem. All the cool people are walking away from Reddit, or at the very least trying to support the blackout/boycott. So all that’s left are the chronically online people, apathetic lurkers, and assholes who purposefully don’t care. The assholes are now seeming more vocal because all the logical voices are burned out or gone. Provided the good contributors/commenters stay away. Eventually lurkers won’t enjoy a ton of pissy comments on everything and look for more interesting discussion to peruse. Then the assholes will just be being assholes to each other, then be like man this place is full of assholes, and go look for a healthier community to be an asshole too because they don’t want people who fight back like they do lol.
Hey hey hey. I’m chronically online. That’s why I care enough to be here instead of Reddit!
Lol same, I just meant the reddit addicts. Which I am one but I’m here. I’m trying lol
well put
Honestly it’s pretty great this way, lemmy is most of what reddit was to me without all of those problematic groups you mentioned.
Me who fits into all three of those categories: side-eye.png
Lmao, who cares what they think?
My biggest issue with Lemmy is lack of userbase… which is fixable by signing up for Lemmy.
Figured best case scenario other people make the switch, worst case I’ll forget this service even exists.
Also does anyone know how to enable dark mode, or if there is a dark mode?
I use jerboa for Android and it has TWO dark modes 😱
In case you happen to need sunglasses at night?
Now I’m singing “I wear my sunglasses at night…”
Working as intended.
So I can, so I can
There is a lot of activity to spend many hours here. Discover more communities here. There is a dark mode, go to the settings page. You will find it in a drop down menu.
yeah that’s what I’m struggling with too, like it’d be great if we could encourage people to try these, but at the same time I don’t want to give them a bad first impression to turn them off forever if they can not stand it’s still a baby project (understandable). I honestly don’t think it’s that hard to start using these fediverse products though, and I feel like the posts saying “lemmy will never take off”, “kbin is too hard to use” only gave me barriers to start using it. And then when I did start, I was like oh this is great, everyone’s talking, it’s a close community
The biggest issue is how easily people are taken “off-site” when linking to another instance, leaving them essentially logged out and unable to subscribe or otherwise participate. Users should be presented an option to be redirected to the relative view within their instance or go external. With the “external” link in much smaller font below the preferred option. Kind of like how Steam or Discord has a pop-up asking if you “trust this site” whenever you leave their spaces.
Yeah I do agree with that. Like if I got some search results from google, and it came from lemmy.one, the link takes me to lemmy.one site, but I probably don’t have an account on specifically lemmy.one. Then I can’t make any comments, save/upvote. I’d have to navigate there again on my account’s server to be able to do anything
If you’re coming from anywhere other than your home instance, that’s a slightly different problem that is unfortunately impossible to completely solve without a browser extension. Sites cannot access cookies from a different website for obvious security reasons. So the most another web site would be able to do is offer a drop down with a redirect to the most popular instances. It would work similar to third party social media sign-ins (e.g. sign in via google account).
The problem with the fediverse is that they couldn’t possibly offer a full sign-in list, but maybe at worst you would have to type it in manually or rely on an extension.
Dark Mode - I’m using the dark theme in Firefox and Lemmy respects the default.
Check this community for scripts/styles to change the look - https://sh.itjust.works/c/plugins
Once there are good mobile apps in the app stores, I think we’ll start seeing a surge in adoption. The other big piece is moderation tools. If Lemmy can manage to build better mod tools than Reddit, it would be a big draw for power mods
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I wouldn’t be surprised if reddit admin are inflating upvotes on pro reddit comments or have an army of bots defending reddit.
Some subreddits are also using automod to remove comments linking to Lemmy.
I hope some journalists put a spotlight on the deceptive tactics Reddit is using.
I keep seeing posts about how Lemmy isn’t an alternative because of the main developer’s political views. Like this one: https://teddit.net/r/APIcalypse/comments/140qymq/lemmy_is_not_a_viable_reddit_replacement/
What does it even matter? It’s open-source.
Also, Lemmy is a great alternative, simply because regardless of the devs political views, literally anyone can fork it on GitHub, make Lemmy2, and link it up with OG Lemmy and Kbin.
Yeah, and as it is today, most instances aren’t even run by that dev.
damn i clicked that link expected that the main dev is like a fashist or something…turns out he is a communist yay
Reading the OP in that post argue physically hurts me, they just seem to be such an annoying person
I’d honestly be happy if the people who are swayed away from Lemmy for that reason stayed away from Lemmy. I don’t at all agree with the developer there and anyone who posts that kind of thing is gross. But anyone sensitive enough to take that as a reason to stay away from Lemmy is super annoying and I’m happy they aren’t here.
Here’s the thing - we’ve been raised from birth to think “people don’t make things, companies do”.
Most people have never used software that isn’t company branded, they’ve never sat in a chair made by someone they know, they’ve never pulled food out of the ground. Almost all jobs set someone up doing a service with a supply chain behind them or doing one small step of something bigger.
It’s learned helplessness. They don’t have the concept of how they could do things outside of the hierarchy - solid chance they’ve tried, and since their skills are hyper-specialized and rely on big, expensive tools, they found they had a lot of gaps.
Anything you do outside of a company is a hobby to most people. And even then, people organize into sports leagues and buy fancy toys instead of just meeting up in the park with a ball… Do you really need to play by professional rulesets when you’re just trying to exercise?
This time around, I didn’t bother to explain why the decentralization is so important to my friends and family - even the technical ones are almost afraid of the idea of it.
Instead, I told them about the ways Reddit has picked up the harmful strategy that Facebook used, and that makes mobile gaming so addicting yet so unfulfilling: show them less of the content they want to change the reward schedule, training you to use the app longer for a smaller dopamine hit. Show you content that will make you feel angry, driving up engagement. And most importantly, always wave the promise of another dopamine hit.
The app is eggregious - it sprinkles in stuff from top communities I left a long time ago because they suck, it gives you suggestions for new communities and presents them like interaction from other users, and it sends you notifications to tempt you back in all the time.
And this is just the beginning, it’s going to get a lot worse With all the other social networks eyeing their own strategies to squeeze their users, it’s going to suck across the board, and good luck trying to build relationships outside these platforms
I think it’s important to remember we’re animals, and we’re not just trainable, we’re the most trainable by a large margin. The best of us have just a handful of moments where we see beyond our instincts and conditioning, and decide to train ourselves
This project is important, because it can give us back communities small enough to get to know each other, while providing a larger forum for ideas, and with a design that can shrug off attempts to control it.
It’s going to fragment. Sections of it will break off into echo chambers, admins will sell out their users, and parts will offer a curated walked garden hosted. But it can survive all that because of one simple truth - unless one person captures the majority of the network, they’re going to have to cut off the best part of the network. Social media can be profitable without sucking, but to rake in profits it has to suck - and even then, we can start up servers for friends and family, and rebuild the network organically
I’m working for an app streamlined enough I can send it to my mom and have her sign up without getting scared off, and I think I’ve got a solid idea of how to improve discovery of communities without becoming distributed rather than decentralized. Other people are building their own visions of what this can become, and a lot of people are writing impressive code (Lemmy has no business scaling as well as it has), and the beauty of it is that it all competes while adding to the whole.
I’ve been at it for 30 hours now, but I can’t shake the feeling that me getting this out this out in the next few days is going to matter if this is going to become what I hope instead of another shard of Reddit.
But every time I step away to take a breather, I end up back on here and see a glimpse of what this could be
The only way to change the world is to release something self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing and intrinsically positive, and hope it grows
Kudos!
Little pockets of culture can exist in the cracks of society. Kudos to all involved. I’m not sure I can meaningfully contribute as of yet due to family/time constraints but I’m here to comment and upvote.
Where is the gold? Oh wait…
🏅
Is there a Lemmy c/bestof somewhere yet?
That’s very exciting to read. Thank you for your service.
Lemmy isn’t ready yet to completely replace Reddit for most people, and that’s part of the fun!!
The thing is, there are pretty much two distinctly separate reddits, new and old. New reddit is flashy with live videos and more media than text, and old is very text based. And then if you are using an app like RIF, you don’t even have chat. For me, old reddit is very much like browser lemmy and going from RIF to Jerboa was very seemless. It’s almost the same thing. But if someone actually likes new reddit and their app(I saw a graph that like 80% of users use it) lemmy is not going to cut it.
But imo lemmy is in a great spot right now. It could definitely be better but it’s growing a lot. I’m liking it at least.
Mass adoption with all these flashy videos and corporate consumerism is a poison pill.
We are pretty of the first migration, one the land is settled more will come
build a church and people will come
I haven’t noticed that because I no longer look at reddit. I suggest you do the same.
Yeah, OP is getting hate-baited hard.
Yeah I’ve seen a lot of it happening to everyone who participated in the blackout. I got death threats and shit in my inbox.
I literally only use it for my sub these days because it has a fair amount of members. I do all my scrolling and reading here now. Login there to check the mod queue and I’m done until there’s an alert.
Yeah, I don’t care what happens on there.
The people who like it are here. The people that don’t are still there. Not that complicated.
Amen, if Reddit ever died it would probably survive living rent free in Lemmy users’ heads.
Eh, Digg is nothing more than a historical note to most who left in the exodus, but there was a time when it made up a large % of the posts on Reddit. People will move on, but for now the wounds are still fresh.
Also, people have a natural tendency to form “teams.” Even if they don’t particularly like what Reddit’s admins have been doing they may identify as part of “team Reddit” and so see other teams as the enemy.
There was a legendary episode in social psychology called the Robbers Cave experiment. It had been set up in the bewildered aftermath of World War II, with the intent of investigating the causes and remedies of conflicts between groups. The scientists had set up a summer camp for 22 boys from 22 different schools, selecting them to all be from stable middle-class families. The first phase of the experiment had been intended to investigate what it took to start a conflict between groups. The 22 boys had been divided into two groups of 11 -
- and this had been quite sufficient.
I’ve just read up on that experiment on Wikipedia and the conclusion you present seems to be shortcoming to tell nicely. Reassuring to me was that the two groups occasionally ganged up on the experimenters, being aware they’re being manipulated. Thanks for mentioning this, yet for me it seems to be way more to it than '2 groups will fight inevitably ’
Besides, the way to convert isn’t by arguing. You do it by providing a good platform (not there yet), good content (not there yet) and good community (kinda there?).
Yup.
Don’t get dragged down into the mud. They’re kicking up shit because they feel like they’re losing something. Like the thing they like is under attack and in danger. Getting into fights with them not only validates their feelings, it makes everyone else see it as a “both sides” thing.
I’d say we’re at “okay platform” level, and “okay content if you’re into the specific things we’ve got okay content for at this point.”
It’s a gradual process. The Fediverse is slowly getting better, and Reddit is slowly getting worse, and eventually someday they’ll pass each other in the wilderness.
