Both. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These “certain aspects” are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called “great men.” Excuses after excuses.
The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don’t accuse me of denial.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Terrible understanding of the sequence of events. The bartering of Czechoslovakia by the West was itself the first invasion, and it was supported by the West. Notably, the Soviet Union did not cede ground to the Nazis, they prevented that ground from being gained and those people from being slaughtered. The West made a NAP with the Nazis and handed vast swathes of people over for extermination. The Nazis were bound to invade Poland no matter what, and it should be noted that France made no offensive push during the invasion of Poland in order to make it happen faster. I would even argue that things were so close on the Eastern Front, that if the Soviet Union did not take back western Belarus and Ukraine the Nazis would have won the war.
Improving geopolitical position is ideological opposition to Nazism, which had always postured itself as an enemy to communism.
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets “saving” anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
You’re simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.
I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn’t care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it’s own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
My comments are split now, so I’ll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it’s not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It’s just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
famine is terrible, and it was caused by western sanctions and invasions of the soviet union and even other regions of the world. please note that many western armies looted and burned their way through ukraine during the civil war, and america itself occupied vladivostok in the east even. it is also important to think that if the soviet union sought to kill all ukrainians, why didnt they? after ww2, there was no one stopping them.
it is also important to note that almost every region of the world experienced famine during this time, and these famines led to radicalization in many forms. my grandfather was a survivor of famine from similar causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
The Holodomor happened before WW2 dipshit. Tankies really can’t resist genocide denial huh? Fits right in with you defending the Soviet Union teaming up with the nazis.
Oh so if you fight someone doing a genocide you get to commit some of your own for free? Wasn’t aware that special was still going.
Also again ignoring the Soviets were happy to help nazi germany when it was convenient for them.
Nazism as an ideology set out to eradicate those seen as impure, and two of the most prominent of those targeted groups were communists and Slavic people. Hitler literally wanted to kill everyone who identified as a socialist. To think that the USSR was unaware or tolerant of this fact is a truly awful take.
Wow a commie who doesnt know history, not surprising. Firstly I never said USSR didnt know what Germany was doing, I said they didnt care. This is backed up by history. Yes Hitler hated the soviets and they probably disliked him to but they tolerated him and his crimes against humanity enough to form an alliance and work together. A little timeline of events to refresh your memory: 1939 USSR signs a non aggression pact with Germany. This pact includes plans to divide eastern europe between USSR and Germany, a clause that prevents the USSR from allying or aiding enemies of Germany. Shortly after Germany and the USSR double team Poland and split it up between them. After Stalin used the attack to capture a few eastern european countries he asked to join the Axis powers treaty. Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies. After it was confirm that Hitler had betrayed him he spent several days sulking in his holiday house refusing to communicate with his generals.
There is no way you can reasonably say that USSR disapproved of Hitlers action and Ideology. The only thing he would have had an issue with is that Hitler hated slavic people. He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
Did you finish your book halfway through? Hitler and Stalin formed an alliance shortly after the Spanish civil war. Even though Hitler referred to Slavic people as untermench Stalin still signed treaties because they were at the end of the day both Fascist Authoritarian dictators and dont give a single fuck about committing crimes against humanity.
Both. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These “certain aspects” are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called “great men.” Excuses after excuses.
nonsense, communists were on the front line to kill people like hitler. this is holocaust denial
The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don’t accuse me of denial.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
You did not addressed a single point lol you’re a broken disc, say the same thing all the time
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Terrible understanding of the sequence of events. The bartering of Czechoslovakia by the West was itself the first invasion, and it was supported by the West. Notably, the Soviet Union did not cede ground to the Nazis, they prevented that ground from being gained and those people from being slaughtered. The West made a NAP with the Nazis and handed vast swathes of people over for extermination. The Nazis were bound to invade Poland no matter what, and it should be noted that France made no offensive push during the invasion of Poland in order to make it happen faster. I would even argue that things were so close on the Eastern Front, that if the Soviet Union did not take back western Belarus and Ukraine the Nazis would have won the war.
Improving geopolitical position is ideological opposition to Nazism, which had always postured itself as an enemy to communism.
BASED
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Do you deny the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact and the illegal attack on Poland by the Soviet union under its leader Josef Stalin?
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
So what about the Soviet Union doing ethnic cleansings in the parts of Poland they conquered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
Not when it kills millions through starvation --> holodomor
The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets “saving” anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
You’re simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.
I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn’t care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it’s own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
My comments are split now, so I’ll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it’s not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It’s just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
i agree that america is genocidal. no reason for you to hatepost about communists when we agree with so much.
What’s your excuse for the holodomor?
famine is terrible, and it was caused by western sanctions and invasions of the soviet union and even other regions of the world. please note that many western armies looted and burned their way through ukraine during the civil war, and america itself occupied vladivostok in the east even. it is also important to think that if the soviet union sought to kill all ukrainians, why didnt they? after ww2, there was no one stopping them.
it is also important to note that almost every region of the world experienced famine during this time, and these famines led to radicalization in many forms. my grandfather was a survivor of famine from similar causes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor The Holodomor happened before WW2 dipshit. Tankies really can’t resist genocide denial huh? Fits right in with you defending the Soviet Union teaming up with the nazis.
You’re a spineless coward, just admit you’re fine with genocide and totalitarianism so long as they have a red flag.
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👏
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
So I guess it’s just not genocide when the Soviet Union does it?
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Oh so if you fight someone doing a genocide you get to commit some of your own for free? Wasn’t aware that special was still going. Also again ignoring the Soviets were happy to help nazi germany when it was convenient for them.
Hitler bravely killed Hitler, is that enough to respect him?
And then they killed millions of people to enforce Stalin’s autocracy. How, exactly, is that better than Hitler?
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All tankies ever have is name-calling.
Because they were attacked. Otherwise they would have happily sat out of ww2.
Nazism as an ideology set out to eradicate those seen as impure, and two of the most prominent of those targeted groups were communists and Slavic people. Hitler literally wanted to kill everyone who identified as a socialist. To think that the USSR was unaware or tolerant of this fact is a truly awful take.
Wow a commie who doesnt know history, not surprising. Firstly I never said USSR didnt know what Germany was doing, I said they didnt care. This is backed up by history. Yes Hitler hated the soviets and they probably disliked him to but they tolerated him and his crimes against humanity enough to form an alliance and work together. A little timeline of events to refresh your memory: 1939 USSR signs a non aggression pact with Germany. This pact includes plans to divide eastern europe between USSR and Germany, a clause that prevents the USSR from allying or aiding enemies of Germany. Shortly after Germany and the USSR double team Poland and split it up between them. After Stalin used the attack to capture a few eastern european countries he asked to join the Axis powers treaty. Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies. After it was confirm that Hitler had betrayed him he spent several days sulking in his holiday house refusing to communicate with his generals.
There is no way you can reasonably say that USSR disapproved of Hitlers action and Ideology. The only thing he would have had an issue with is that Hitler hated slavic people. He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
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Did you finish your book halfway through? Hitler and Stalin formed an alliance shortly after the Spanish civil war. Even though Hitler referred to Slavic people as untermench Stalin still signed treaties because they were at the end of the day both Fascist Authoritarian dictators and dont give a single fuck about committing crimes against humanity.
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I appreciate you arguing even though it’s with a brick wall.
Lol. To the contrary! I think communist lady has proven to be in interesting person to argue with. 😅😅😅😅
i hope it is red brick 🤔
You’re the brick wall, so yeah. Read the meme lady. Easy block.
weird
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