I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now. So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
It is definitely a word that has gotten a lot of strange meanings now.
The issue with a lot of communist states is that it is a nonstop struggle against foreign powers that seek to exploit your people. Failure is unacceptable of course, but its not because they want to or planned it that way. By all means, if an anarchist or other socialist project somehow took over my region and was successful, I would support it to the hilt. That is unlikely, the biggest group in my area is communist. They even support trans rights when no one else does!
Interesting. I don’t want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative “tankie” might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
I’m sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don’t identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don’t talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
Likewise, I don’t speak to many people outside of the US.
I think you’ll find that westerners tend to be more loose with thier definitions. We adopt analogies and political shorthands very quickly.
Additionally, many “progressive” Americans like me are extremely critical of nationalism. Capitalist and conversation Christian propaganda is everywhere here, and it cultivates a short of hyper sensitively to certain subjects. I’m very critical of states, especially socially conservative or militaristic ones.
In your situation, supporting a communist party might be your best choice, just like mine is voting for capitalist Democrats (over Republicans).
I hope you make more Western friends. You’ll surely teach them new things and vice versa.
I like you and I respect you. I need to go to sleep (it’s 1:15am here). Take care!
We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now.
To blame “anti-communist revolution” for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the largest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. (…) So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
…it’s nice that you’re honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a “little green man” as well?
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now. So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
It is definitely a word that has gotten a lot of strange meanings now.
The issue with a lot of communist states is that it is a nonstop struggle against foreign powers that seek to exploit your people. Failure is unacceptable of course, but its not because they want to or planned it that way. By all means, if an anarchist or other socialist project somehow took over my region and was successful, I would support it to the hilt. That is unlikely, the biggest group in my area is communist. They even support trans rights when no one else does!
Interesting. I don’t want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative “tankie” might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
I’m sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don’t identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don’t talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
Likewise, I don’t speak to many people outside of the US.
I think you’ll find that westerners tend to be more loose with thier definitions. We adopt analogies and political shorthands very quickly.
Additionally, many “progressive” Americans like me are extremely critical of nationalism. Capitalist and conversation Christian propaganda is everywhere here, and it cultivates a short of hyper sensitively to certain subjects. I’m very critical of states, especially socially conservative or militaristic ones.
In your situation, supporting a communist party might be your best choice, just like mine is voting for capitalist Democrats (over Republicans).
I hope you make more Western friends. You’ll surely teach them new things and vice versa.
I like you and I respect you. I need to go to sleep (it’s 1:15am here). Take care!
yes i had to work, have a good sleep 💤
we are critics of nationalism here too, though people do miss when things were more socialist here, which can be mistaken for nationalism
To blame “anti-communist revolution” for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the largest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
…it’s nice that you’re honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a “little green man” as well?