this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now. So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
It is definitely a word that has gotten a lot of strange meanings now.
The issue with a lot of communist states is that it is a nonstop struggle against foreign powers that seek to exploit your people. Failure is unacceptable of course, but its not because they want to or planned it that way. By all means, if an anarchist or other socialist project somehow took over my region and was successful, I would support it to the hilt. That is unlikely, the biggest group in my area is communist. They even support trans rights when no one else does!
Interesting. I don’t want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative “tankie” might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
I’m sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don’t identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don’t talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now.
To blame “anti-communist revolution” for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the largest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. (…) So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
…it’s nice that you’re honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a “little green man” as well?
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Terrible understanding of the sequence of events. The bartering of Czechoslovakia by the West was itself the first invasion, and it was supported by the West. Notably, the Soviet Union did not cede ground to the Nazis, they prevented that ground from being gained and those people from being slaughtered. The West made a NAP with the Nazis and handed vast swathes of people over for extermination. The Nazis were bound to invade Poland no matter what, and it should be noted that France made no offensive push during the invasion of Poland in order to make it happen faster. I would even argue that things were so close on the Eastern Front, that if the Soviet Union did not take back western Belarus and Ukraine the Nazis would have won the war.
Improving geopolitical position is ideological opposition to Nazism, which had always postured itself as an enemy to communism.
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
from what i am reading, these are polish military officer’s bodies. poland’s military was known for pogroms against jews during the nazi occupation, and that was a sentence of death in the soviet union. as for the other claims, many civilian populations, including many millions of russians, were moved beyond the urals in order to evade firebombing campaigns. some of these groups stayed, but many left after the war.
sexual crimes happen in war and people who commit them should be killed.
it is fine to save hundreds of thousands of lives from firebombing, yes. war is never pretty and you must protect civilians by moving them away from the ever-advancing front line.
The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets “saving” anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
You’re simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
It’s a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
That’s not unfair. It’s a different definition of the word.
no, i agree with that statement. i disagree with the statement that communists (which are called tankies in the original word) are fascist.
Trump, even if he werent fascist, has interlocutors that very obviously are. I would not call someone before the 1800s a fascist, maybe a protofascist. Fascism is distinctly measured by its reaction to socialism, which is a distinct set of ideas proposed largely by Kropotkin, Marx and Engels, Lenin, and Hegel while under the influence of industrial society. If you read Mussolini’s Corporatism, it becomes very obvious what fascism is and how they use socialist organizing tactics and even terminology to undermine our movements. Whether you are communist or anarchist, it doesn’t matter, they subvert the method of organization. Franco subverted anarchists in Spain with National Syndicalism, and the Nazis subverted ANTIFA in Germany with National Socialism. This is a critical aspect of fascist ideology, it is how they gain traction. By fighting against other socialists (and advocating for punching them in your meme), you help them with subversion.
Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
My definition of a tankie is as follows: A “tankie” is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it’s often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
I don’t believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now. So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
It is definitely a word that has gotten a lot of strange meanings now.
The issue with a lot of communist states is that it is a nonstop struggle against foreign powers that seek to exploit your people. Failure is unacceptable of course, but its not because they want to or planned it that way. By all means, if an anarchist or other socialist project somehow took over my region and was successful, I would support it to the hilt. That is unlikely, the biggest group in my area is communist. They even support trans rights when no one else does!
Interesting. I don’t want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative “tankie” might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
I’m sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don’t identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don’t talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
To blame “anti-communist revolution” for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the largest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
…it’s nice that you’re honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a “little green man” as well?
You did not addressed a single point lol you’re a broken disc, say the same thing all the time
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
Terrible understanding of the sequence of events. The bartering of Czechoslovakia by the West was itself the first invasion, and it was supported by the West. Notably, the Soviet Union did not cede ground to the Nazis, they prevented that ground from being gained and those people from being slaughtered. The West made a NAP with the Nazis and handed vast swathes of people over for extermination. The Nazis were bound to invade Poland no matter what, and it should be noted that France made no offensive push during the invasion of Poland in order to make it happen faster. I would even argue that things were so close on the Eastern Front, that if the Soviet Union did not take back western Belarus and Ukraine the Nazis would have won the war.
Improving geopolitical position is ideological opposition to Nazism, which had always postured itself as an enemy to communism.
BASED
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Do you deny the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact and the illegal attack on Poland by the Soviet union under its leader Josef Stalin?
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
So what about the Soviet Union doing ethnic cleansings in the parts of Poland they conquered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939–1946)
from what i am reading, these are polish military officer’s bodies. poland’s military was known for pogroms against jews during the nazi occupation, and that was a sentence of death in the soviet union. as for the other claims, many civilian populations, including many millions of russians, were moved beyond the urals in order to evade firebombing campaigns. some of these groups stayed, but many left after the war.
sexual crimes happen in war and people who commit them should be killed.
Oh so it’s fine that the Soviet Union displaced their government and murdered anyone who opposed them?
it is fine to save hundreds of thousands of lives from firebombing, yes. war is never pretty and you must protect civilians by moving them away from the ever-advancing front line.
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Not when it kills millions through starvation --> holodomor
we discussed that elsewhere
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The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets “saving” anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
You’re simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.