Why is it that compared to other mental illness’s like depression, ADHD, autism and anxiety people seem to be so hostile to NPD? I always see things about ‘mental health awareness’ yet this is never applied to personality disorders.

Just look up “narcissism”, “NPD” or “narcissistic personality disorder” and the results are about how dangerous people with NPD are and how to spot somebody with NPD or if your ex boyfriend is a narcissist etc… etc…

I was watching this video earlier by a YouTube user ‘ShortFatOtaku’ called “Low IQ Twitter Discourse Awards!” and there was this one guy on twitter who said that if you claim advocate for the mentally ill you such do so with personality disorders as well. A statement I completely agree with:

https://youtu.be/3EJedJ8MhNA YouTube

ShortFatOtaku response with “wow your going to let that narcissist kill you and take everything from you?” I shouldn’t have to explain how bad faith and unhinged that is.

Why do people think this way about narcissists? Having NPD doesn’t make someone an inherently bad person. As someone who has NPD I haven’t abused or manipulated anyone ever. Sure, I struggle with empathy, I have to make an effort to think about other people and ok I have a never ending need for validation but that doesn’t mean I’m a bad person I understand I have a problem I didn’t choose to be like this. Manipulation and grandiosity are awful traits that I have but they don’t define me. I’m a good friend, I’m a good sister, I’m a good coworker and there are people out there who benefit from my existence. NPD doesn’t have to define me I’m more then my diagnosis.

  • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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    2 hours ago

    People don’t understand that medicine is about helping the patient. They read the diagnostic criteria for NPD, and they don’t understand that those things are only medically significant if they harm the patient. They think the criteria is a list of bad behaviour that hurts others.

    Teach people what medicine is, and the stigma disappears.

    • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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      2 hours ago

      You should definitely say the same thing to the next black man you see saying he hasn’t committed any crimes. Watching you find out what happens would be fun.

  • rational_lib@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    As someone with an NPD “friend” - I have to look beyond the insults and threats and see the insecurities and vulnerabilities behind them. Most people just can’t or don’t want to do that and will be insulted if not scared away by the things my friend says to them. There’s also a stigma associated with being friends with someone who is abusive - I keep the friendship secret from all but my closest friends, who have a hard time understanding it themselves.

  • sit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    8 hours ago

    As others have written it’s deconstructive towards other people plus NPD are hard to make understand their behaviour is problematic. In their view you are the problem if you have a problem with them. Depression, ADHD and other things do not have that trait. With them you can talk them into therapy and about potential problems they are causing.

  • Cris@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    I think the important thing is really just that mental illness doesn’t shield you from accountability for how you impact other people, and for a personality disorder that primarily manifests in traits that harm people, that’s a hard thing to reconcile with that person’s merits. Doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t, just that because you are still responsible for potentially hurting people, and have a disorder that makes you very likely to do so, those things will be very hard for people to square.

    Another example is paraphilias. Paraphilias can include things like pedophilia, which manifests in a desire to do something that would subject someone to profound amounts of trauma, the likes of which most of us couldn’t even begin to appreciate. Can someone with such a paraphilia be a good person who is kind, and does not harm people in that way? Yes. Can that person be largely a good person in most contexts, but cause people enormous harm as a result of their paraphilia? Also yes.

    In some ways we are all people with conditions that affect who we would be otherwise, and in other ways we are all just people, and conditions are used descriptively to communicate the traits that we have.

    At the end of the day, the thing that matters is how you treat people. If you cause people harm, it might be more understandable given the context of a personality disorder, but it doesn’t absolve you of any responsibility. And if you don’t, then you haven’t done anything wrong. And I mean that for each moment in time, each interaction. Humans are messy and complicated, and generally ideas like “good person”, “bad person”, are reductive.

    I’m sorry you feel trapped or defined by your diagnosis. That can be a painful place to be. I have a close friend with borderline personality disorder who has at times felt similarly. Only thing that matters is whether you’re an asshole. Only thing that ever has mattered, only thing that ever will.


    Edit: just want to be very clear- the fact that it will be hard for people to engage with you purely based on your behaviour in a given interaction is not something you deserve. Its the actions and how they affect people that count, even if I can empathize with why it’d be hard for people

    • Dragon Rider (drag)@lemmy.nz
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      2 hours ago

      for a personality disorder that primarily manifests in traits that harm people

      Drag thinks you’ve misunderstood the diagnostic criteria. The criteria specifically refer to manifestations of the traits that harm the patient. Traits that harm others aren’t counted as diagnostically significant. Like, take the “excessive need for admiration” criterion. That one’s only medically significant if the patient is suffering because of their need. If they’re abusing other people into praising them and getting what they want, then they don’t have NPD.

      For example, Donald Trump has the traits as a layperson would understand them, but not as a psychiatrist would understand them. Because they’re not hurting him. Doctors only care if the patient is suffering. No pain, no disorder.

      • Cris@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        Thank you very much. As someone with a lot of challenges with mental illness myself, it’s something I think about a lot.

  • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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    13 hours ago

    Oof… This is a tough one. First, I’ll point out that this post is EXACTLY what I’d expect from a narcissist. Woe is me, zero accountability. Assuming you’ve actually been diagnosed by a psychiatric Dr, they didn’t diagnosed you with NPD on a whim. You were diagnosed with NPD after you did something, or more likely after a lot of times doing harmful things, and finally taking some initiative to figure out what’s wrong with you. Maybe friends or family had to really push you towards getting help. Maybe your just young enough that seeking mental health help is normalized, so you were able to go for it.

    “As someone who has NPD I haven’t abused or manipulated anyone ever.” -As someone with NPD you wouldn’t be able to recognize if you had ever done these things. This entire post is pretty manipulative actually.

    NPD is a very tragic illness. One of the worst parts imo is that, almost always, one of the symptoms is the person not being able to truly recognize their own disorder. This can be dangerous, and also infuriating. A person’s entire life can fall apart around them, and they are incapable of doing the self reflection necessary to understand why, let alone do the work to fix the problem. People will spend years trying to “save” a loved one, to get that person to recognize that it’s THEM who is the problem and needs to do the work, just to get to the exact same spot a decade later because that person CAN NOT recognize it. Recognizing there is a problem is the first step towards fixing yourself. Since NPD usually precludes the person from being able to recognize the problem in themselves, it becomes impossible for them to save/fix themselves. It’s truly insidious.

    All those things you listed would make you a bad person if you didn’t try to correct them. And maybe you actually are. I certainly hope so.

    Edit to add: asking someone with NPD to be able to self reflect and do the work to change, is like asking a paraplegic to run a marathon. It might seem to others that the person is REFUSING, when in reality they literally cannot physically do so. However, unlike the paraplegic person, a person with NPD causes harm to everyone around them, and the only thing a healthy person can do is cut toxic people from their lives. It’s not the person with NPDs fault (one of the other great tragedies is that it is almost always a result of shit parents) that they are toxic, but they are toxic none the less, and unable to stop it. I’m sorry you ended up this way, I truly hope you can let yourself be treated.

    • CrookedSerpent [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      10 hours ago

      This post kinda scares me. Like the way you frame NPD is that if someone is diagnosed the only moral course of action is to never form relationships with anyone ever because you simply can’t do so without hurting them. This turns any attempt at self reflection from someone with NPD into another form of manipulation and frames rehabilitation impossible. You would condemn someone to a lifetime of isolation from a singular diagnosis. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

    • TʜᴇʀᴀᴘʏGⒶʀʏ@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      9 hours ago

      As someone with NPD you wouldn’t be able to recognize if you had ever done these things.

      Since NPD usually precludes the person from being able to recognize the problem in themselves, it becomes impossible for them to save/fix themselves.

      Asking someone with NPD to be able to self reflect and do the work to change, is like asking a paraplegic to run a marathon… they literally cannot physically do so.

      This isn’t true. What are you even basing this on?

    • FromPieces
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      11 hours ago

      OP: “god, it’s hard being a paraplegic and trying to run…”

      You: “guys, don’t listen to this asshole, being a paraplegic means you can’t run. If this person were actually NPD, it would be an extremely positive sign for them to seek to improve themselves and since we can see this person trying to improve themselves, they are clearly lying and manipulative. Classic NPD.”

      Log off and touch grass. You can come back when the stench of your self righteous diarrhea of the mouth fades.

  • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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    14 hours ago

    It’s stigmatised because the term has entered common (mis)usage to describe people who are just selfish

    • 1ns1p1d@lemm.ee
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      6 hours ago

      I don’t think that’s WHY it’s stigmatised. It had to be stigmatized before that to be applied to selfish people.

      It’s a disorder that is harmful to others and difficult to understand. For others to cope with it requires navigating a complex network of negative behaviors. Manipulation and lack of empathy are the traits of a psychopath, and none of us want that.

      The OP lacks empathy but evidentally desires it from others. If you understand why you need empathy, then you understand why lack of empathy is stigmatised.

      • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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        7 hours ago

        It had to be stigmatized before that to be applied to selfish people.

        Good point. I suspect it was a plot point in Medical Drama #17 or Police Drama #12, thus was thoroughly misrepresented.

    • SpaceFox:3@lemmy.mlOP
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      14 hours ago

      Kinda like how “schizophrenia” is used to describe anyone who’s a bit weird or how “autistic” is used to describe someone with a interest in something.

  • FromPieces
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    14 hours ago

    I think you raise a very valuable point here. “Narcissist” is so often used simply as a label for the villain with no consideration for the terms use as a medical diagnosis.

    In your case, you may be labeled a narcissist but you make a continual conscious effort to account for the weaknesses implicit in that diagnosis. This is different from the vitriolic insult so often used to condemn people.

    This is a failure on our part, in the way we use the term. You may be (technically) a narcissist, but, you are not “evil” in the way that others popularly labeled “narcissists” are. You are a good person.

    • SpaceFox:3@lemmy.mlOP
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      14 hours ago

      I understand why “narcissist” will be used in a negative way but I’ve seen people diagnosis anyone they don’t like with NPD. It’s hard to find any good content online about it because everything is just pop psychology clickbait nonsense.

      Nobody irl knows about my diagnosis but I’m afraid of if they find out. If this is all they see they may not want to associate with me. I wish people were more understanding like they are for things like depression or anxiety. It’s such a big thing about that I have to keep secret. I’m dating a guy at the moment. I like him but I’m worried about how he would react if he found out. I’m thinking of just keeping it secret forever but I don’t know if I can.

  • planish@sh.itjust.works
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    14 hours ago

    I dunno dude, it’s super weird. Sarah Z has a video about this, IIRC the explanation there was something like, people have latched on to “narcissist” as a thing one doesn’t need to worry that one is oneself but can be tacked on to anybody one dislikes. Also there are demons involved for some reason.

    (Having killed ShortFatOtaku’s Twitter guy, and taken all his stuff, how would “the narcissist” go about extracting the validation??? Sounds made up.)

    (Also it’s always “the narcissist” like there’s just one extremely busy person out there.)

    NPD might make people struggle with empathy, but nobody, who is out there thinking everyone they meet could be “the narcissist” who is out to get them and not worthy of respect or consideration, is themselves killing it on the empathy front.

  • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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    14 hours ago

    How do you cope with NPD?

    Also, what kind of things can other people do to support someone with NPD?