It was expected. This is how “free” development becomes a victim of not at all free dogmas. It is also how already fragmented Linux development becomes even more fragmented.
First of all, saying “based on their country of residence” is either grossly uninformed or (most probably) plain dishonest.
Ignoring that, the GPL-freedoms of companies subject to sanctions are still preserved, so… having established that your “free” is not the same “free” as in “free and open source software”, what the hell are you talking about?
You do know that the maintainers delisted worked for russian companies that was sanctioned by the west? And if you feel somehow wronged by this, you are always more than welcome to emigrate to a country that aligns with your worldview.
First, you’re acting like the decision was made by Linus or another member of the team and that they weren’t following the law.
Second, even if that weren’t the case, it’s still completely free. Unless you can name one of the following freedoms that was impacted by those actions:
Freedom 0: The freedom to use the program for any purpose.
Freedom 1: The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish.
Freedom 2: The freedom to redistribute and make copies so you can help your neighbor.
Freedom 3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole community benefits.
All of those freedoms were directly impacted bozo.
And as for “Linus didn’t do it”, not only did they choose to comply with an order that directly violated the GPL, but in doing so he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers who have worked diligently on the kernel for years for the betterment of open software AND Linus’ paycheck.
Calling your former volunteer contributors bots and state assets because of their home country is just straight up racist, especially when the only evidence of state-sponsored tampering in the Kernel has come from American institutions (that we even know of).
Literally none of those freedoms were impacted. Everyone is still free to use the program as they wish, fork it, make changes, etc… Linux doesn’t have a new license that says “anyone but Russians” can use it.
he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers
How did he gloat? He explained the change. If your complaint is that he was abrasive, I feel like you’re not familiar with Linus.
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting
reverted, andusing multiple random anonymous accounts totryto"grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change
anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm
accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US
thing.
If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read
the news some day. Andby"news", I don't mean Russian
state-sponsored spam.
Asto sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call
brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian
aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of
history knowledge too.
Sounds a lot more like he’s frustrated than delighted to me.
Calling your former volunteer contributors bots
He didn’t call the contributors bots.
He called the people submitting reverts and complaining about those maintainers, who weren’t contributors themselves, “troll farm accounts.”
and state assets because of their home country
When did he call anyone a state asset? To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.
He also explained that this was a legal matter:
> Again -- are you under any sort of NDA notto even refer to a list of
> these countries?
No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that
I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers.
I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random
internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have
been riled up by them.
To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.
Ok, I give up, I have no idea if you’re doing a bit. Like I felt kinda confident you were serious, but this leaves me floundering. Purposely obtuse because you’ve talked yourself into such a stupid corner, or just that incredibly obtuse that you unironically think asset means property? Absolutely no way to tell which one it is.
Before I reply to your comment, I’d like to share this link. It didn’t change any of my existing understanding because Linus’s comment already made it clear that this was out of their hands, but maybe it’ll help clarify something for you.
I realize now that this comment on that post was made beforethis one (“What’s free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?”) by the same person. It’s disingenuous for someone to act like this is about “country of residence” when they already engaged with a post clarifying that it’s because of sanctions against specific companies.
Searching for “asset” specifically I see a tertiary definition reading “A spy working in his or her own country and controlled by the enemy” as well as the wikipedia definition, but that still means “spy,” not “paid lobbyist.”
just that incredibly obtuse
I’d apologize for not being well versed enough in counter-intelligence lingo to properly interpret the comment, but even with a proper interpretation, the comment I replied to was still incoherent, so I’m not really sure what you expect here.
It feels weird to say that it was incredibly obtuse of me to not spend more time trying to figure out what someone meant when they were, as far as I can tell just mad that Linus and other Linux maintainers didn’t ignore what their attorneys advised, regardless of what impact that might have had on them personally, and spouting a bunch of nonsense as a result.
Maybe I’m wrong, though. If so, would you care to explain how this was a violation of the GPL and/or how all of the 4 freedoms I listed were violated?
b. assets plural the items on a balance sheet showing the book value of property owned
Hey now, something strange is going on here - see, when I visit that page, there aren’t just 3 items. Now, you wouldn’t be selectively ignoring parts of your own source to paint a certain narrative, would you? Because the 4th item I see is
4 : something useful in an effort to foil or defeat an enemy: such as
a : a piece of military equipment
b : spy
I’m sure you simply… overlooked it in your excitement. Now you’re aware though, I’m sure you’ll be happy to correct your comments.
Right? It’s weird how so many people upset about the situation in this thread are incapable of explaining why it’s a problem without lying.
Like, I get that it sucks to be removed as a maintainer because of something outside your control. But being, or continuing to be, a maintainer of a project isn’t a right that’s integral to that project being free.
It was expected. This is how “free” development becomes a victim of not at all free dogmas. It is also how already fragmented Linux development becomes even more fragmented.
What “not at all free dogmas” are you referencing, and why is “free” in scare quotes?
What’s free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?
First of all, saying “based on their country of residence” is either grossly uninformed or (most probably) plain dishonest.
Ignoring that, the GPL-freedoms of companies subject to sanctions are still preserved, so… having established that your “free” is not the same “free” as in “free and open source software”, what the hell are you talking about?
You do know that the maintainers delisted worked for russian companies that was sanctioned by the west? And if you feel somehow wronged by this, you are always more than welcome to emigrate to a country that aligns with your worldview.
First, you’re acting like the decision was made by Linus or another member of the team and that they weren’t following the law.
Second, even if that weren’t the case, it’s still completely free. Unless you can name one of the following freedoms that was impacted by those actions:
All of those freedoms were directly impacted bozo.
And as for “Linus didn’t do it”, not only did they choose to comply with an order that directly violated the GPL, but in doing so he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers who have worked diligently on the kernel for years for the betterment of open software AND Linus’ paycheck.
Calling your former volunteer contributors bots and state assets because of their home country is just straight up racist, especially when the only evidence of state-sponsored tampering in the Kernel has come from American institutions (that we even know of).
Literally none of those freedoms were impacted. Everyone is still free to use the program as they wish, fork it, make changes, etc… Linux doesn’t have a new license that says “anyone but Russians” can use it.
How did he gloat? He explained the change. If your complaint is that he was abrasive, I feel like you’re not familiar with Linus.
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about. It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything. And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing. If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam. As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.Sounds a lot more like he’s frustrated than delighted to me.
He didn’t call the contributors bots.
He called the people submitting reverts and complaining about those maintainers, who weren’t contributors themselves, “troll farm accounts.”
When did he call anyone a state asset? To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.
He also explained that this was a legal matter:
> Again -- are you under any sort of NDA not to even refer to a list of > these countries? No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers. I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them.deleted by creator
Ok, I give up, I have no idea if you’re doing a bit. Like I felt kinda confident you were serious, but this leaves me floundering. Purposely obtuse because you’ve talked yourself into such a stupid corner, or just that incredibly obtuse that you unironically think asset means property? Absolutely no way to tell which one it is.
Before I reply to your comment, I’d like to share this link. It didn’t change any of my existing understanding because Linus’s comment already made it clear that this was out of their hands, but maybe it’ll help clarify something for you.
I realize now that this comment on that post was made before this one (“What’s free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?”) by the same person. It’s disingenuous for someone to act like this is about “country of residence” when they already engaged with a post clarifying that it’s because of sanctions against specific companies.
I unironically think that because it does mean that:
When I do a search for “state asset,” the results I get are all related to property, resources, etc., things that belong to and can be exploited by the state - for example https://www.epa.gov/dwcapacity/state-asset-management-initiatives-documents
Searching for “asset” specifically I see a tertiary definition reading “A spy working in his or her own country and controlled by the enemy” as well as the wikipedia definition, but that still means “spy,” not “paid lobbyist.”
I’d apologize for not being well versed enough in counter-intelligence lingo to properly interpret the comment, but even with a proper interpretation, the comment I replied to was still incoherent, so I’m not really sure what you expect here.
It feels weird to say that it was incredibly obtuse of me to not spend more time trying to figure out what someone meant when they were, as far as I can tell just mad that Linus and other Linux maintainers didn’t ignore what their attorneys advised, regardless of what impact that might have had on them personally, and spouting a bunch of nonsense as a result.
Maybe I’m wrong, though. If so, would you care to explain how this was a violation of the GPL and/or how all of the 4 freedoms I listed were violated?
Hey now, something strange is going on here - see, when I visit that page, there aren’t just 3 items. Now, you wouldn’t be selectively ignoring parts of your own source to paint a certain narrative, would you? Because the 4th item I see is
I’m sure you simply… overlooked it in your excitement. Now you’re aware though, I’m sure you’ll be happy to correct your comments.
Check out the post history, this person is a Richard Stallman defender
It doesn’t. Russians are still free to use and contribute to Linux development. Just a few people lost their maintainer rights.
No point in contributing to a hostile organization.
Yeah… Russians lost rights. A bit of a catch-22 there, pal.
deleted by creator
Right? It’s weird how so many people upset about the situation in this thread are incapable of explaining why it’s a problem without lying.
Like, I get that it sucks to be removed as a maintainer because of something outside your control. But being, or continuing to be, a maintainer of a project isn’t a right that’s integral to that project being free.
I am doubtful about the agency of the commenters here. Does not seem natural, more like a group of bots / paid russian trolls.