At this point I’m very concerned about the open source industry relying so much on github. You have to remember that any project there can be swept away overnight because it doesn’t fit into the agenca of a large company, for example.

  • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
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    3 months ago

    The author was bullied by Nintendo into voluntarily removing the repos, it wasn’t DMCA’d.

    GitHub had nothing to do with this one. And just like with Yuzu, plenty of people have uploaded copies of the repo already, thanks to git’s decentralized nature where everyone have a full copy of the entire history.

    • MrSoup@lemmy.zip
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      Git itself isn’t decentralized is about people copying it and sometimes mirroring it.

      Anyway it is a good habit to avoid github entirely (when hosting a repo).

      • aalvare2@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Git itself isn’t decentralized is about people copying it and sometimes mirroring it.

        Not sure what you mean. My understanding is that git itself is decentralized insofar as each clone can develop its own history without ever needing to push to the origin, but that what OP is referring to is actually the “distributed” nature of git, where i.e. it’s easy to copy the entire history of an instance.

        • MrSoup@lemmy.zip
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          3 months ago

          what OP is referring to is actually the “distributed” nature of git, where i.e. it’s easy to copy the entire history of an instance.

          Exactly. Isn’t decentralized itself since it’s not a platform but by being “indipendent” and not entangled with anything you can just copy it entirely and host it somewhere else.

          • aalvare2@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Isn’t decentralized itself since it’s not a platform

            I think I see your definition of “decentralized” a little better now, if you only want to apply it to platforms.

            I think your definition may be too strict, and that “decentralized” and “distributed don’t have to be mutually exclusive, but eh, that’s just my take.

            • refalo@programming.dev
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              I think if syncing of (at least) upstream histories between clones was done automatically, they might consider that more in-line with their definition of decentralized.

              Also kudos to both of you for communicating your differences properly without resorting to arguments.

              I feel like so much of the arguing and trolling nowadays is simply due to a difference in subjective definitions and people not being able to calmly communicate that with each other.

              • aalvare2@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                100% agree, when I see something I disagree with on its face I try to default to “I probably don’t get something they’re saying, given that it’s only a couple sentences of written word, and a different person’s brain who wrote them”.

                It always makes for more useful conversation than defaulting to “ha what a dumbass”

        • toastal@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          Git being snapshot-based unlike other (better) VCSs require that patch order matter so often the easiest way to manage a project is to have some centralized authority since it is so, so easy to get merge conflicts without a central authority if trying to just distribute patches. It’s a lot easier to be decentralized without Git’s fundamental limitations.

          • aalvare2@lemmy.world
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            What version control software in particular do you find better than git?

            Your point about users often managing git projects via centralization is taken and valid. I was just pointing out that you don’t have to use git that way - different clones can separately develop their own features - so the earlier claim someone made that “git isn’t decentralized” is still wrong, imo.

            • toastal@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              Git is distributed but still centralized. D in DVCS is distributed. Downvoters likely have never used a non-Git VCS, let alone a non-snapshot-based VCS. But fanboys will fanboy.

              Pijul & Darcs are based on Patch Theory which make the conflicts of different patch order a non-issue so long as the apply cleanly (such as working on different ports of the code base). Patch A then patch B ≡ patch B then patch A; this will be a needless merge conflict in Git since the order matters. (& no, Jujutsu isn’t the solution still shackled to the limitations of Git as a back-end while claiming to do what Pijul does—but doesn’t).

              • aalvare2@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                I think downvoters are just expressing disagreement with your opinion. Personally I don’t hate git but I wouldn’t call myself a “fanboy” either - I just don’t think “distributed” has to be mutually exclusive from “decentralized”, which is a term not rigorously defined in this context anyway.

                But thanks for informing me about patch theory, that’s something I’ll probably make a small hobby out of studying.

      • toastal@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        Anyway it is a good habit to avoid github entirely (when hosting a repo).

        FIFY

        • MrSoup@lemmy.zip
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          3 months ago

          Yes but no, because I don’t want to not interact with a repo at all just because it’s on github for whatever reason (if there’s one).

          But yes, I understand your feelings. Fuck M$

      • loathsome dongeaterA
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        3 months ago

        Git is decentralised by nature. It’s what allows mirroring the repo on other forges even when git repos are hosted on proprietary platforms like GitHub.

    • qaz@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Git is decentralized, but the collaborative aspect is fully centralized.

    • PropaGandalf@lemmy.worldOP
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      I see. But still, GitHub isn’t the right place for precious code like this. The best would be to have a federated git forge, something like what the forgejo devs are working on.

  • Lad@reddthat.com
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    3 months ago

    I’m going to pirate a switch game and load it onto my steam deck in honour of Yuzu and Ryujinx.

    • GHiLA@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      Let’s create millions of copies of BOTW and smash them so Nintendo loses a few billion.

  • Anti-Face Weapon@lemmy.world
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    This kind of thing often has the opposite of the intended effect. People then host mirrors of the original repo, and the press brings more developers to the project.

    This sort of action by Nintendo and other companies is so short sighted. Bad press, a legal battle they couldn’t actually win if it went to court, increased attention on the thing they’re trying to hinder, etc. Its a stupid decision made by business people who don’t know anything about tech, and who are disincentivized to care about the long term health of their brand.

    I litterally had not heard of the emulator until now. Maybe I’ll have to compile it and give it a spin now.

    • Bitswap@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Bad press, a legal battle they couldn’t actually win if it went to court

      Those two seem like a stretch.

      • JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz
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        Emulation and emulators aren’t illegal. Yuzu for example got in trouble mostly for distributing tools for circumventing copy protection and dumping roms and not for the emulator itself.

        But it doesn’t really matter as nobody has money to defend themselves against something like Nintendo. Here just even the threat of it was enough to get the Ryujinx devs to fold just in case.

        • Bitswap@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Yes. Nintendo doesn’t need to ever win a lawsuit. If they simply bring it, they will win through having the deepest pockets.

      • Anti-Face Weapon@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        This is clearly bad press, everyone reading this gets negative thoughts about Nintendo. We are all talking about how bad they are RIGHT NOW.

        Nintendo would absolutely lose that legal battle. It’s well established that emulation is not a crime and nor is the development of emulators.

        • Bitswap@lemmy.world
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          You already had negative thoughts about nintendo…so does that count? Most people won’t even see this…so I don’t think it’s much bad press.

          As for legal battles…being sued is not really about committing crimes…you can lose legal battles while not doing anything illegal. I think Nintendo would likely win from simply pushing the devs into bankruptcy…

          • frezik@midwest.social
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            3 months ago

            If it’s enough negative thoughts pile up, they’ll eventually breach a threshold where people avoid the company. I was looking forward to Metroid Prime 4, but I’m thinking of skipping it now.

            • Bitswap@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Maybe…I think this is not even noise for most people.

              As much as I disagree with what their doing, Nintendo content is vastly superior to other consoles/handhelds…so I’m forced to stick with them.

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    What’s not reported is that they will create a new codeberg account under a fake name, fork, and continue development in a few months

    • ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Original dev almost certainly not, not if they have their real name which is likely.

      Nintendo harasses people with private investigators and likely have a dossier on whoever they targeted that goes beyond just the project. Cheat on your wife? Have a questionable arrangement with your HOA about your garage? It’s all ammo against you.

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          In this age with PIs and lawyers, it can often be found, and emudevs probably don’t start thinking they will be facing down a giant corpo over a hobby project.

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            3 months ago

            In this age where PIs have been replaced with Facebook scrapers and lawyers have been replaced with ChatGPT, it can more easily be hidden – especially if you use tools like Tor.

            • ocassionallyaduck@lemmy.world
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              If you start the project intending to be untracable, yes.

              Most software devs aren’t thinking of that. These things with emulators often start as a hobby.

              • delirious_owl@discuss.online
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                3 months ago

                Sure, that’s why you abandon it, make a public statement about closing shop (exactly like happens here) and then fork it under a new identity

  • CubitOom@infosec.pub
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    3 months ago

    Here is HurricanePootis pinned comment in the AUR.

    So, I am going to pin this post.

    For now, I am pointing this package to https://git.naxdy.org/Mirror/Ryujinx as it has tags, which is useful for this package.

    I am against deleting this package, as with yuzu and citra, forks will arise and then these packages will be resurrected (sometimes by less skilled maintainers cough cough citra). Therefore, I am going to keep an eye out to see where Ryujinx development goes, and go on from there.

  • Zozano@lemy.lol
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    3 months ago

    OK!

    SAY IT WITH ME NOW!

    WHEN I SAY “BARBARA” YOU SAY “STREISAND”!

    READY?!

    " BARBARA "

    • Chewy@discuss.tchncs.de
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      This does not apply to difficult projects like emulators.

      E.g. suyu, a yuzu fork, does not seem to get much development. Most of the changes are build or documentation related. [1]

      Those emulators will work fine for the currently supported games, but without new competent people (trying to stay anonymous), I don’t see how these emulators will improve.

      [1] https://git.suyu.dev/suyu/suyu/commits/branch/dev

      • samus12345@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yeah, now that both of the main emulators have been shut down, it will be interesting to see how well people can run future high profile Switch games on PC. Mario & Luigi Brothership and Metroid Prime 4 come to mind.

    • grue@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I mean, that’s been obvious since Microsoft bought it.

      But this is really more about how emulator devs ought to accept that Nintendo is going to try to persecute them and start keeping themselves anonymous to avoid being ruined by lawsuits, even though what they’re doing is neither illegal nor unethical.

      • PropaGandalf@lemmy.worldOP
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        Not necessarily. Look at Lemmy instances for example. You could call each instance a hub, but the content is pretty much distributed.

  • yamanii@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Nintendo is not as stupid as you guys think, Yuzu forks that actually got some development like sudachi got targeted shortly after and was dmca’d too, nobody wants to work on something that’s going to get claimed in 3 months.

    • mbirth@lemmy.ml
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      Just serve the code locally from a Gitea or Forgejo instance. Then let’s see how Ninty is going to DMCA that. Also, I’d love for someone to challenge the DMCA’s as copyright should not apply to an emulator that doesn’t use any original code and doesn’t come with ROM files.

      • yamanii@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yeah, it’s why Nintendo got Yuzu through DRM circumvention since games are encrypted, if Ryujinx didn’t comply they would’ve just done the same.

        • mbirth@lemmy.ml
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          3 months ago

          But nothing is circumvented. People have to provide their own keys, right? It’s like suing GnuPG b/c it can decrypt stuff…

          • n1ckn4m3@lemmy.world
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            IANAL, but from what I read regarding Yuzu / the title and prod keys / etc., is Nintendo’s argument is three-fold – the only way to obtain those keys is to use a tool that itself is a violation of the DMCA, use of those keys by an emulator to decrypt Nintendo’s protected content in a method outside of Nintendo’s authorized use is a violation of DMCA even if the keys aren’t provided in the emulator, and there is no legitimate use of those keys except to circumvent controls intended to protect copyright.

            Therefore, by their argument, any emulator that can use those keys would effectively be subject to DMCA even if you had to bring your own keys, because unless the emulator only ran homebrew or completely decrypted content and had absolutely no decryption capabilities, you’d still be using the prod keys and title keys to decrypt content in violation of the DMCA in order to execute it. So, the tool that dumps the keys is a DMCA violation and any emulator that uses those keys to decrypt protected content in order to execute it is a DMCA violation, and Nintendo has a strong case that the actual keys themselves are only useful for making unauthorized copies of content that bypass the encryption that exists to prevent it.

            It stands to reason that a clean-room developed Switch emulator that required all content it ran to be decrypted prior to being able to run it may be able to exist without Nintendo shitting it into non-existance, since Nintendo couldn’t make any argument that the primary use was a DMCA violation as no encryption would be being bypassed by the emulator. They’d probably then go after whoever made the tool to dump the games, but they’d probably be less successful.

            On the other hand, the pragmatist in me says that unless I was 500% sure of my online anonymity, I wouldn’t want to pick a fight with Nintendo – even if I thought I was right. They have enough money to lock someone up in legal battles for a very long time and most independent developers wouldn’t have anywhere near the finances required to bankroll appropriate defense counsel. Can’t say I’d blame people for not wanting to invite that hellscape into their lives.

            • mbirth@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              Thing is, DMCA doesn’t apply all over the world. There are countries where whatever electronic device you buy is actually yours and you’re allowed to do whatever you want - including messing with the firmware. Also, I’d argue, the DMCA doesn’t apply if you dump the firmware/keys for yourself only without distributing it.

              That being said, it’s unfortunate that these people are mostly in the US where the party with more money decides when a lawsuit is over and not some sane judge that just throws this case back at Nintendo. But after the stuff with Disney+ and the recent one with Uber, I’m not surprised at all anymore.

  • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Nintendo youll never get my money cuz you wont me play yer great games on my own hardware. Ill never spend another dime on your designed to fail overpriced crappy controllers. Never! Boooooo!

  • logging_strict@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    Wait! So the author bows his head, says hey great guys u win. Watch i complied.

    Leans over to the stranger sitting next to him and says, hold my beer.

    In the same heartbeat, creates another git acnt, exact same commit history. And carries on. Some other author, totally not the same guy but oddly the same pgp public key announces they’ve taken over and here are the new urls.

    i call that mission accomplished

    this comment thread is like fight Money Mcbags and go bankrupt for our entertainment and for the LOLs and feelz good?

    Or we can just post the new urls and pretend it’s a new maintainer, with the handle lawyerdisappointed

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    Repackaging old games for new consoles is basically the entire business model for Nintendo at this point. In light of that, I can see why they go after emulators so hard.