Kind of having a difficult time understanding/finding sources on it. Humanism seems pretty cool at first glance, though I haven’t read much so I can’t be sure.

What do you guys know and think about it?

  • TeezyZeezyOP
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    2 years ago

    Thanks for replying, I see. Why is humanism idealism? The only thing I know is what’s on the Wikipedia page and some other sites; I haven’t even made it to the theory itself yet.

    It seemed to me like basing morality off of human reason/needs and the scientific process. Is that a correct understanding? If so, to me it seemed pretty interesting/something MLs would agree with.

    Forgive me, I feel very inferior rn lmao (not cause of anything you said just I don’t know enough)

    • CommunistWolf
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      2 years ago

      Don’t worry, I only read On Materialism this year and would have been clueless about this if you’d asked last year :D. I’m still absorbing it and the various follow-ups, so hardly an expert or authority.

      I’ve been suspicious of humanism-itself for a lot longer, though. As with everything, it becomes watered down and repackaged over time, until you end up with pithy statements like “good without god”, etc, and as a general statement of anti-religion, fine, sure, that’s marxism-compatible, materiaism-compatible, etc. But in this form, it’s also unnecessary to synthesise it into marxism at all, since what you end up with is not “marxist-humanism”, it’s just “marxism”. The only reason to add “-humanism” to the end would be marketing, branding, that kind of thing.

      What’s interesting to dig into is where humanism and marxism don’t overlap, whether that’s just addressing different things, or actually conflicting with each other. That’s where a synthesis of the two has tricky questions to answer, and maybe - just maybe - value to bring. That kind of effort will use a much more in-depth and rigorous understanding of what humanism is, with jumping-off points like the amsterdam declaration, etc.

      What did marxist-humanists come up with when doing this? I’m as in the dark as you as to specifics, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_humanism briefly say:

      Marxist humanists reject an understanding of society based on natural science, asserting the centrality and distinctiveness of people and society.

      So this basically says “historical materialism is false”, and it comes about because humanists believe individual human free will is supreme and, somehow, the aggregate effect of humans having free will cannot be investigated scientifically.

      Marxist humanism views Marxist theory as not primarily scientific but philosophical. Social science is not another natural science and people and society are not instantiations of universal natural processes. Rather, people are subjects – centers of consciousness and values – and science is an embedded part of the totalizing perspective of humanist philosophy.

      So much for “scientific socialism”, I suppose. My best summary of this would be “science doesn’t work on people, sike”. Forgive me my skepticism.

      Echoing the inheritance of Marx’s thought from German Idealism, Marxist humanism holds that reality does not exist independently of human knowledge, but is partly constituted by it

      I’ll get my coat.

      (edit: I didn’t say explicitly, but each of these three examples is chock-full of idealism, which is to say, “metaphysical perspectives which assert that reality is indistinguishable and inseparable from perception and understanding; that reality is a mental construct closely connected to ideas”. What marxist-humanism takes from humanism, in these passages, is idealism, and the “synthesis” is to discard materialism and replace it with that idealism)

      • TeezyZeezyOP
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        2 years ago

        Thank you so much. Wonderful response, very informative and digestible. I’ll read On Materialism next! Right now I’m reading “Socialism Betrayed” as recommended to me by a friend. Really good book about the realities, mistakes and successes of the USSR.

        Anywho, I really appreciate youe response. It can be exhausting and time-consuming to educate others so thank you