So to be clear, if I gave Trump supporters a tax incentive and some education, they’d abandon their gas guzzlers and stop eating meat? Are you actually hearing yourself?
The social “structure” you’re describing is literally the manifestation of their will. Yes, it’s a self-perpetuating system, but it’s their system shaped by what they want.
You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to a system responsible for making them evil. Unbelievable.
So to be clear, if I gave Trump supporters a tax incentive and some education, they’d abandon their gas guzzlers and stop eating meat?
No, I’ve simplified a relatively complex piece of urban planning theory so as to make it easy to communicate in a short response. There is a reason I told you to read further, are you hearing yourself trying to come up with a halfbrained unfounded retort to a response that encouraged further education?
The social “structure” you’re describing is literally the manifestation of their will. Yes, it’s a self-perpetuating system, but it’s their system shaped by what they want.
Again with this essentialism! The social structure is the society which they live in. It is in part shaped by will, but the will is equally shaped by society. To simplify: what we do is determined by three fields - Means, motive and material. Each field influences the other. We drive the car because it is perceived as the most “effective” vehicle (and because we perceive it as being “a vehicle that gives personal freedom” and other values we equate with “good transport”. For a lot of people it is the most effective, because there is no good public transport or other infrastructure, and because it is much easier to drive a car than to rely on public transport (materials and means). This in turn influences public policy, which then ends up reinforcing this.
This is why people drive cars, not because their “will” is evil or some dumb shit. If you’re going to insult me, do the required reading first.
You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to a system responsible for making them evil. Unbelievable.
Did you think you were cooking here? “You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to an evil system” yeah buddy. The system is evil, we’re all parts of the system and you won’t change it by shaming individuals. Systemic problems require systemic solutions.
Once again: I encouraged you to read up on urban planning theory, since this is the field within which the issue exists. I gave you a specific text as well and a short simplification of what it detailed. You decided to reply with an uneducated vitriolic vibes-based attempt at a response. Be better, educate yourself.
What is this fantasy realm where unforgivable monsters who want [SA] victims to give birth are somehow above blame because “they don’t know any better”?
we’re talking about people driving cars.
Urban planning isn’t what makes people buy giant gas guzzlers they can barely afford.
Yes it is. If we’re gonna continue this you’re going to have to move away from this vibes based approach you’re attempting.
Urban planning is not why 40% of Americans believe in ghosts and horoscopes but not evolution. Urban planning doesn’t cause misogyny and homophobia. And it certainly doesn’t force people to knowingly eat the flesh of tortured animals or support murderers and [redacted]. What we are seeing is a fault in human nature that can only be corrected over the course of generations. Unfortunately, our environment may not have that long.
Normally when people attempt to move they goalposts, they stay on the same field.
We’re discussing why people choose the means of transport they choose. Within this subject urban planning is paramount. People choose vehicles because of systemic reasons, not because of some nazi-like idea of “the triumph of the will” or weird national essentialism about the American brainpan.
This is really shitty debatebroism of you. You’re not engaging with the arguments, you’re not engaging with the science and you’re trying to make me out to be someone who defends all sorts of weird shit. Also put a spoilertag on your mentions of SA, you piece of shit.
I fucking hate how libs will act as if good and evil are inherent traits and Trump supporters were apparently just born that way. I suppose if people’s material conditions determined their behaviour it would mean libs aren’t as “above it all” as they think they are and are just as much a product of their environment as Trump supporters.
So to be clear, if I gave Trump supporters a tax incentive and some education, they’d abandon their gas guzzlers and stop eating meat? Are you actually hearing yourself?
The social “structure” you’re describing is literally the manifestation of their will. Yes, it’s a self-perpetuating system, but it’s their system shaped by what they want.
You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to a system responsible for making them evil. Unbelievable.
No, I’ve simplified a relatively complex piece of urban planning theory so as to make it easy to communicate in a short response. There is a reason I told you to read further, are you hearing yourself trying to come up with a halfbrained unfounded retort to a response that encouraged further education?
Again with this essentialism! The social structure is the society which they live in. It is in part shaped by will, but the will is equally shaped by society. To simplify: what we do is determined by three fields - Means, motive and material. Each field influences the other. We drive the car because it is perceived as the most “effective” vehicle (and because we perceive it as being “a vehicle that gives personal freedom” and other values we equate with “good transport”. For a lot of people it is the most effective, because there is no good public transport or other infrastructure, and because it is much easier to drive a car than to rely on public transport (materials and means). This in turn influences public policy, which then ends up reinforcing this.
This is why people drive cars, not because their “will” is evil or some dumb shit. If you’re going to insult me, do the required reading first.
Did you think you were cooking here? “You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to an evil system” yeah buddy. The system is evil, we’re all parts of the system and you won’t change it by shaming individuals. Systemic problems require systemic solutions.
Once again: I encouraged you to read up on urban planning theory, since this is the field within which the issue exists. I gave you a specific text as well and a short simplification of what it detailed. You decided to reply with an uneducated vitriolic vibes-based attempt at a response. Be better, educate yourself.
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Yes it is. If we’re gonna continue this you’re going to have to move away from this vibes based approach you’re attempting.
Normally when people attempt to move they goalposts, they stay on the same field.
We’re discussing why people choose the means of transport they choose. Within this subject urban planning is paramount. People choose vehicles because of systemic reasons, not because of some nazi-like idea of “the triumph of the will” or weird national essentialism about the American brainpan.
This is really shitty debatebroism of you. You’re not engaging with the arguments, you’re not engaging with the science and you’re trying to make me out to be someone who defends all sorts of weird shit. Also put a spoilertag on your mentions of SA, you piece of shit.
I fucking hate how libs will act as if good and evil are inherent traits and Trump supporters were apparently just born that way. I suppose if people’s material conditions determined their behaviour it would mean libs aren’t as “above it all” as they think they are and are just as much a product of their environment as Trump supporters.